News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by slap_shot on Monday January 31, 2022 @01:54PM (#30152387)
This is exactly my point. I'm not against outlawing casinos (i think you should be able to do pretty much whatever the eff you want with your body and money).

BUT if we are going to allow them, should we allow them to only let people play when they lose?

The decision to let them exist is as arbitrary as the decision to allow them to only play when they when.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by renlo on Monday January 31, 2022 @02:14PM (#30152694)
Found it amusing reading this thread, thinking of gambling companies paying their lawyers to argue that gambling is "skilled based". Then, after gambling is legalized, they'd ban all of the skilled players so we'd go back to "luck based" gambling that their lawyers just argued was skilled based.
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by bruce511 on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @12:14AM (#30158887)
You don't go back to luck based, you stay skilled based, but the only skilled player in the room is the house.

Baseball is a game of skill. So assume the Yankees could ban every skilled player who beat them. They make bank beating little-league rookies. It makes sense to keep the competition at that skill level.

Obviously we're referring to games like Blackjack here, not roulette, which are not purely random.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by Pet_Ant on Monday January 31, 2022 @02:03PM (#30152559)
>([I] think you should be able to do pretty much whatever the eff you want with your body and money). ... The decision to let the exist is as arbitrary as the decision to allow them to only play when they [win].

How do you square that with giving people autonomy? You can do what you want with your money, but you can't play if you don't feel like you are gonna win... there is an inherent contradiction there.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by handoflixue on Monday January 31, 2022 @06:17PM (#30156213)
> How do you square that with giving people autonomy?

The Libertarian Free Market answer is that both parties need to be fully informed. Casinos would be required to post maximum win rates and otherwise fully detail their "we throw out anyone that wins" policy up-front, in a clear and easily understood format. If the casino writes a bad, exploitable policy, they go bankrupt being exploited and this encourages future casinos to do better.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by noxvilleza on Monday January 31, 2022 @07:23PM (#30156925)
The maximum win rates part is normally clear by the game (for example, for Roulette or Blackjack you can see odds) or otherwise regulated by local/government laws (e.g. for games of pure chance like slot machines).

> and otherwise fully detail their "we throw out anyone that wins" policy up-front

They can just ask the gambler to leave the premises - I cannot imagine some 'libertarian free market' solution which would force casinos to allow anyone to enter the premises and gamble (provided it's not clear discrimination). Being able to count cards isn't some sort of protected class, right?

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by handoflixue on Monday January 31, 2022 @08:19PM (#30157403)
> The maximum win rates part is normally clear by the game (for example, for Roulette or Blackjack you can see odds)

That's the AVERAGE win rate.

The maximum win rate is "if you make more than $10,000 in profit, we'll throw you out", and I've never heard of that being made explicit.

The point is that if you're going to throw out people who win more than a certain amount, you're not actually offering a fair game. There are secret rules that you haven't been told, and they very clearly bias your overall odds. You certainly shouldn't be able to advertise "you could win big!" if your policies make that impossible.

---

There's clearly precent in other industries, too: If a grocery store advertises a sale on milk, they have certain obligations to offer a rain check if they run out. "According to the Fair Business Practices Act, it is unfair or deceptive if a store advertises goods without intending to sell them or to provide reasonable amounts of the advertised products without providing notice that supplies are limited."

Casinos are advertising the chance to "win big" but have no intention of ever actually paying out.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by HWR_14 on Monday January 31, 2022 @09:31PM (#30157891)
Casinos are just fine with big payouts. They know if you run a lottery, you're going to write some checks. And besides, winners are great PR.

They are not fine with playing a game that does not advantage them.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by noxvilleza on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @08:10AM (#30161905)
> That's the AVERAGE win rate.

I thought that they were suggesting it's ~ the average winrate given optimal play.

Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by kadoban on Monday January 31, 2022 @08:31PM (#30157502)
The house edge of Blackjack, depending on the rules used, is negative with skillful play (counting cards). Casinos kick out card counters. The rate at which you can win before the casino kicks you out is not public.
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by HWR_14 on Monday January 31, 2022 @09:28PM (#30157872)
I'm not familiar with libertarians who are uncomfortable with hidden information. In fact, the ones I know would consider requiring casinos to post such information to be government intrusion.
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by hillbillydilly on Monday January 31, 2022 @02:44PM (#30153205)
its the classic hn libertarian take. empowered teens with freedom technology, saying one thing (body autonomy, no regs!) but, actually with regulations they're just smarter regulations cause I'm smart
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by gnopgnip on Monday January 31, 2022 @07:24PM (#30156934)
If you are a business open to the public, you can't discriminate based on gambling skill the same way you can't discriminate against other types of customers.
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by dragonwriter on Monday January 31, 2022 @07:57PM (#30157217)
FTFY: If you are a business open to the public, you can discriminate based on gambling skill the same way you can discriminate against other types of customers, so long as the basis is not a legally protected class enumerated in public accommodations law (for most businesses), or the specific law applicable to your business (for businesses in industries with indistry-specific anti-discrimination law instead of being subject to general public accommodation law.)
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by maerF0x0 on Monday January 31, 2022 @07:54PM (#30157183)
Gambling skill isnt a protected class
Re:The rising human cost of sports betting by gnopgnip on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @01:11AM (#30159176)
This was a reply to the parent comment about how such a law would work, not what the status quo is.

And Atlantic City casinos can’t legally kick out card counters