Show me the evidence that a "complex" auto-dispenser gets dishes cleaner than a mere pre-wash + main wash dispenser.
The only argument I could see is that people who use tablets exclusively aren't currently able to use the pre-wash, thus giving them a substandard wash. But then you have to ask-- if the detergent manufacturers have already successfully marketed a tablet of detergent that doesn't conform to the design of the dishwasher and thus degrades the wash quality, what makes you think a firmware update from the manufacturer couldn't, say, improve the energy efficiency while degrading the overall washing quality?
Tabs absolutely suck! Is it really that freaking difficult to dump a little powder in a cup? My dad is 87 - the first six years of his life if they wanted water they hauled it from a well, if they wanted hot water they heated it on a stove - after chopping firewood. If they wanted light they lit a kerosene lamp. Fast forward and people are overdosing dishwashers because it's a few seconds faster to throw a tab in. While screeching about global warming. The irony.
Auto dispensing can be done without code. My parents had a GE that used an analog sensor for the water and varied the amount of soap dispensed based on its feedback. No microprocessor involved.
Microcontrollers are becoming more of a curse as more designers start to wedge them in just because they can; not because they are really needed.
By this same argument, old car engines without microprocessors would function just as efficiently as new ones with microprocessors, yet the evidence is that modern ones are more efficient in just about every way. Microprocessors allow much more sophisticated sensor inputs and tuning of systems, including dishwashers.
>designers start to wedge them in just because they can
Designers don't wedge in anything adding cost without benefit, otherwise competing cheaper models move consumers to other products.
And comparing a car to a dishwasher is more than a bit silly.
Red herring. No one claimed all situations except you.
>And comparing a car to a dishwasher is more than a bit silly.
I didn't claim they're the same. I illustrated, correctly, that a microprocessor allows better analysis of sensor data than oldschool analog systems could. If old analog systems provided the functionality or cost savings a microprocessor could, then those would be used. Claiming designers simply put them in designs solely because they can is more than a bit silly, however.
>few designers have the electronics backgrounds to design circuits without microprocessors
I don't think you're in tune with electronics designers. I think all of them I know (a dozen+) all design systems with and without MCUs as needed. It's easier to design without, mostly since those are usually quite simple systems. When you can get a MCU for under a dime (and very powerful ones under $1), it's simply stupid to design complex systems with anything other than a MCU.
Have you designed, professionally for commercial products, either MCU based or old analog systems?
This is a circular argument - if there was a better method for banks to access customer credit worthiness, they would be using that methodology. Wait, what do you mean global economy collapsed because of subprime loans?
God created the best possible world, because if better world would be possible then god would create that world instead. What, BigBrain, you think you can suggest an improvement to God's design and millions of years of evolution? You want separate holes to eating and drinking so that a million people don't choke to death every year?
With that logic no criticism of the existing system can be made, you don't even have to engage with veracity of any of the claims made by the poster and can reject his argument wholesale.
This poster is not interested in cost savings for the manufacturer, he is interested in claims about MCU making dishwasher more efficient. With engines we have recorded MPG improvements.
What improvements have materialised for diahwasher?
It takes a simple google search if you were interested.
A huge one is the cost savings by allowing energy efficient motors that tune across a wide range of current/temperature/torque as an appliance runs [1]. This is decades old, and requires complex feedback and algorithms extremely costly to implement without a microprocessor. It also allows motors to use less materials, which given fluctuating raw material costs, reduces price volatility. So: energy savings, less materials, lower costs.
This is such a big deal that companies like STMicroelectronics make STM32 CPUs explicitly designed for this, for dishwashers, and they are sold as such [2].
The same control ideas are used to make the heater coils more efficient, again using algorithms implemented in MCUs. This allows top performing devices to use less energy. From 1993 to 2003 advances reduced avg energy use per cycle from 2.6kWh and 10 gallons of water to 1.8 kWh/cycle (30% less energy) and 6 gallons of water (40% less water) [3]. In 2020 avg is about 4.2 gallons per cycle [4]. In 2022 it's 2.36 gal [5].
Annual energy usage for 2022 dishwashers is around 199 kWh/yr [5]. From the above papers in 2008 it was around 325 kWh/yr.
This took < 5 minutes to find using google.
[1] https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/motion-systems...
[2] https://www.st.com/en/applications/home-and-professional-app...
[3] https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2008/data/papers/1_1...
[4] https://prudentreviews.com/how-much-water-does-a-dishwasher-...
[5] https://www.energystar.gov/most-efficient/me-certified-dishw...
I don’t need things to change after that. As long as the dishes keep coming out clean all is well in the world.
Playing devil's advocate, all modern appliances run software to some extent. A modern dishwasher that does auto-dispensing will be particularly more complex.
> If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?
It's not out of the question that the firmware might need to be updated to manage liquids more efficiently, tweak cycle timings, pressure, temperature, etc. It's no different than an EV for which you can install custom firmware to change its behavior.