News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by kerneloftruth on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:43AM (#30101883)
Odd how the author doesn't even touch on the causes of Argentina's persistent inflation. Rather, it's presented as though it came from nowhere, and the only real story is how people deal with it.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by uejfiweun on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:53AM (#30102016)
The Washington Post is no longer concerned with giving readers interesting and useful information. Instead, the entire newspaper is devoted to fearmongering, spin, and propaganda. A quick Google search for "Argentina Inflation Cause" yields the following result: "the price increase in Argentina was fueled by rapid expansion of the money supply". The WaPo very explicitly wants to rapidly expand the money supply in order to redistribute wealth and achieve "equity" or whatever the buzzword is today. I'd guess that this is likely the reason why they don't touch on this in the article - they want to distract you from what's currently happening, and instead are conditioning you to accept the outcome.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by everybodyknows on Thursday January 27, 2022 @03:17PM (#30105837)
> fearmongering, spin, and propaganda

You're missing the biggest one, the first commandment of 21st century journalism:

Thou shalt not criticize the culture of another people, howsomever much all evidence of a trouble's causes may point in that direction.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by gruez on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:43PM (#30104391)
>The WaPo very explicitly wants to rapidly expand the money supply in order to redistribute wealth and achieve "equity" or whatever the buzzword is today.

Considering that they're owned by jeff bezos, why would bezos want this?

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by caeril on Thursday January 27, 2022 @05:34PM (#30107915)
> why would bezos want this?

Easy answer: The Cantillon Effect [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#Monetary_the... ]

Whenever Central Banks print money, they don't load up helicopters and distribute the funds evenly among the populace. They work through close relationships with Primary Dealers. The money enters the system through asset purchases. But when banks' assets are replaced on their books with cash, they have to do something with that cash. What do they usually do? Buy other assets. Like corporate debt. Like stocks. Money is fungible, and unless there are specific regulations preventing it, the first place freshly printed money goes is to the banks. The second place it goes is whatever those banks buy. Think index funds. Think AMZN.

Even in open-market operations, the money still finds its way to AMZN. Example: The Fed pins the 2y-7y maturities down by buying in OMO. SOMEONE is selling. Usually, it's some sort of institutional fund with variable capital controls. With the TSY prices too high for their desk, they look for somewhere else to park their cash, like AMZN, or the SPY.

The first at the trough always wins. The second at the trough wins really big as well. Hacker News readers with their FAANG incomes, RSUs, and 401ks, are pretty big beneficiaries, too. The guy that raises your pastured free-range eggs, though? By the time he's buying coop materials and fencing, most of the purchasing power has already been sucked dry from Bezos and you.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by tomp on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:59PM (#30104620)
Because he has real wealth (Amazon stock) that isn't affected by inflation (stocks rise as money loses value).
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by thebean11 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:07PM (#30104717)
So who is wealth being redistributed from?
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by uejfiweun on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:38PM (#30105238)
It's always the middle class that gets screwed, dude. Happened with the income tax, happening now with inflation, and will happen again once well-intentioned but naïve people pass a wealth tax.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by tomp on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:41PM (#30105279)
People with cash savings.

Employees with salary.

Owners of fixed income securities (government & corporate bonds, mortgages).

Even owners of capital that sell stock (inflation causes imaginary "capital gains" and the corresponding taxes).

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by option_greek on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:35PM (#30105185)
Its not a distribution. Its a dilution. The rich gets richer as they have most of their savings and capital in form that is not taxable and also set to rise with markets and real estate. The poor and middle class have much smaller percentage of income working for them and not usually have access to high growth opportunities.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by jaywalk on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:33PM (#30105142)
The middle class.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by itsumoiru on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:40PM (#30105268)
Whoever has the most USD cash. (In proportion to their total wealth) most certainly not the "rich".
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by otikik on Thursday January 27, 2022 @03:46PM (#30106370)
It's not the middleclass.

It's _everyone that isn't rich enough_.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by MrPatan on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:45PM (#30105360)
You
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by thebean11 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:58PM (#30105543)
Unless I happen to have a mortgage, or other dollar denominated debt..
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by tigershark on Thursday January 27, 2022 @06:11PM (#30108396)
Yeah, right. The economy will be crumbling, hardly anyone will have enough money to put food on the table but somehow they will manage to buy useless stuff on Amazon. Please, stop spreading bullshit, I know that you don’t believe it but you are actively harming people with your disinformation.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by beiller on Thursday January 27, 2022 @05:38PM (#30107973)
Seems like it could be the bread and butter for Amazon's new fintech startup - BNPL loans which is perfect for hyperinflation based economies! Coming soon to a country near you!
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by kgin on Thursday January 27, 2022 @03:43PM (#30106331)
That's a lot of big claims about a very specific agenda. What are you basing this on?
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by steelstraw on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:47AM (#30101931)
That is curious. What are the causes?
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by victorcharlie on Thursday January 27, 2022 @11:08AM (#30102227)
It's a combination of factors but, basically: Populism and its mania with expending more money than what it generates in stupid ways.

An obsession from a big part of the society to sustain obsolete and uncompetitive industries with state money just to avoid "losing jobs".

Draconian taxation for productive and competitive industries (Ag mostly, IT affected too). Slow, confusing and corrupt bureaucracy requiered for starting a new bussines.

A hecktonne of social assistance that barely keeps the persons from starving but don't provide real social ascension.

Obscene subsidies to electricity and natural gas (think about rich people warming their pools during winter).

Sorry that I don't provide raw numbers, I'm in my lunch break and really don't want to sour it.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by missedthecue on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:40PM (#30104356)
They are printing so much money that they had to outsource to foreign printing presses -- their domestic facilities are already running 24/7 at full capacity.

http://mriguide.com/argentina-plans-to-outsource-currency-pr...

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by oneoff786 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @03:55PM (#30106517)
Why wouldn’t you just print larger denominations
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by notch656a on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:11PM (#30106748)
Because that would be admitting there is a problem. Do you want to be the politician that authorizes change in denomination while simultaneously explaining why you haven't addressed why that is required. I'm guessing the politicians don't want to touch inflation with a 10 foot pole, because solving inflation is painful in the beginning so it tends to be very bad for anyone elected on any timespan less than a decade.

Milton Friedman called inflation like alcoholism, great at the start but quitting is long and painful and most of the rewards of stopping are delayed with only pain up front.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by edko on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:26PM (#30106965)
I would add to your excellent answer an anecdote about the tricks of a previous government (with mostly the same people as the current one) to hide inflation: the Secretary of Interior Commerce (a complete thug) forced McDonalds to freeze the price of the BigMac, so that Argentina would look good on the BigMac Index. The prices of all other burgers were more or less free to increase.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by notch656a on Friday January 28, 2022 @02:39PM (#30119350)
So can you actually go in and buy the BigMac? Wouldn't price controls cause inventory of BigMac to disappear? Or does McDonalds happily sell them at a loss?
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by edko on Sunday January 30, 2022 @12:19AM (#30134289)
This was more than 10 years ago. If I recall correctly, they sold the BigMac but did not advertise it (not sure if they even displayed it on the menu).
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by ajot on Thursday January 27, 2022 @11:05AM (#30102178)
IANAE, but I'll say it's mostly seigniorage to fill up for the fiscal deficit.

And if you try to cut the money printer (without taking some.huge debt), you have to squash the deficit, which is mostly subsidies to electricity, gas and public transport, and non-contributive retirements. You can't, politically speaking (and maybe legally too), cut the retirements, so you have to cut the subsidies, which will increase the measured inflation, at least for a few months.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by ephbit on Monday February 07, 2022 @11:45AM (#30247309)
> ... if you try to cut the money printer (without taking some.huge debt), you have to squash the deficit ...

Right. Governments would have to do sound budgeting.

But people who advocate for a balanced budget typically get laughed out of the room.

The way I see it, the real reason why governments most often need ever increasing debt-based budgets is: a growing proportion of the circulating money gets continuously redirected into (and by) the financial sector which puts most of the money in the hands of say the richest 10 %. Because these rich people know best how to avoid/minimize taxation this leads to a lack of tax revenue for the government.

Which in turn compels governments to seek other ways to remain capable of acting (deciding how much money for what is one of the key ways of acting out political decisions for every government). So in order to still be able to act, there's only two possibilities left: A) taking on more debt. B) raising taxes. The latter is spectacularly unpopular with most voters (even though additional taxation ought to hit the most wealthy anyway) so it's hardly surprising that most governments prefer taking on more debt. Usually it works "well" because with today's mainstream opinion it's seen as almost natural to take on more debt, whenever big expenses need to be taken care of. Hardly anyone questions the principle, except for Austrian economics proponents, who aren't really taken seriously.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by Izikiel43 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:34PM (#30107057)
> You can't, politically speaking (and maybe legally too), cut the retirements

Funny enough, that's what the current government did. They removed a law from the previous government which ensured that pensioners would be paid inflation + x% so that their real income won't decrease, and now the government decides on a whim what the pension raise would be (the pensions have been increased by very little very sparsely), effectively cutting retirements, as inflation eats through them.

They can't cut subsidies because most of their voters are poor, and if they touch that, shit hits the fan, whereas they don't give a shit about old people, since they lose them money and don't vote for them.

I'm so happy to have moved to the us and have a 401k and ira accounts the government can't touch.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by ajot on Thursday January 27, 2022 @08:08PM (#30109471)
Well, I meant cut them in a "LOL, no more pensions for you, starve to death or something".

But you're right, the use-the-LELIQs-to-increase-retirements plan is marching as intended.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by Izikiel43 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @08:21PM (#30109566)
> "LOL, no more pensions for you, starve to death or something".

Yeah, they won't say they are doing that, but they are doing that.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by mgh2 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @11:08AM (#30102223)
They have a history of defaults, but mainly gov. corruption

Crypto fans like to compare to the US, but there is a key diff: the work ethic.

Money printing + no production = stealing + inflation + defaults

The US has the production and work ethic to compensate so far

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by edko on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:48PM (#30105418)
Fiscal deficit. The public sector grows and grows by hiring friends, family, and party members. In addition to that, every government contract is overpriced for kickbacks, and the government meddles in everything seeking opportunities for corrupt personal profit. All of this spending and corruption is financed by very high taxes that oppress the private sector, and by debt. When you cannot increase taxes anymore (in some cases, Argentina taxes are over 100%) and when nobody lends you money anymore, the only solution is to print money. But everybody knows that money is not worth anything, thus creating very high inflation.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by hogrider on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:05PM (#30103840)
We print money like there's no tomorrow lol.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by betwixthewires on Thursday January 27, 2022 @03:35PM (#30106199)
Examining your statement literally is also very illuminating. They literally treat the money like tomorrow does not exist.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by sleepingadmin on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:56PM (#30105520)
I don't know the answer, I never invest in south america so I haven't really checked. So let's look together.

Inflation seems to have been a problem since around 2002. From 2006 to 2015 it was kind of stable but bad. The currency then dropped out.

GDP across that entire period seems collapsed. They constantly are dipping into recessions. Their manufacturing industry seems to be in decline since ~2012. Agriculture is suspiciously flat. Mining is in decline for that entire period. Seems to be whole economy collapse to me.

Labour participation rate is steady around 45% suggesting not much tinkering with employment numbers. Which looks also steady about 42%. Unemployment is pretty steady from about 2006 to present around 6-8%. So their productivity is poor. They'll very likely always be a second world country. What a sad outlook.

Central bank balance sheets are all the rave, they only go back to 2012. It looks as bad as any other country as of late.

Money supply is sky high. They probably have ~300-600% inflation locked in here. Holy.

Interest rates are in the 40-80% ranges? But real yields are negative for sure. You cant save a dime in this environment.

Balance of trade is good since 2019 or so, but that probably lines up well with collapse of their economy. Probably means poverty on the rise bigtime? Otherwise has been bad for years and has been in decline in scope.

Tourism died long before covid. Roughly in 2016 something happened to kill their tourism industry.

Government credit rating is trash. Yet government debt is rising.

Argentina's military spending had been bad since the 1990s.

No surprise to see their economic competitiveness is nearly lowest ranked in the world.

household debt to gdp? Argentina has no household debt? You cant get a mortgage at 40%+ interest rates. Therefore you cant have debt. Their people have no debt and they are sitll in collapse?

Corporate tax rate is recently down from an outrageous 35% to a slightly less outrageous 25%. Personal tax is 35%, Sales tax at 21%. So a total tax burden of easily well over 80%. Argentinian people work for the government at least 80% of the year. Does the government provide 80% back in services and goods? I highly doubt that very much.

Since the problem has been ongoing so long. Politically it can't be solved. I must admit I know nothing about their politicians but if I were to shoot from the hip, their current leadership is not ideologically aligned with fixing it.

So easy prediction without crystal ball? They have at least 3 more years of absolute collapse. We're talking probably 20% of people will enter poverty before this ends. It's going to be very bad for the argentinian folks.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by Izikiel43 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:36PM (#30107088)
> From 2006 to 2015 it was kind of stable but bad.

Just an FYI, the government at that time (which is the current government) fudged the official inflation numbers to pay less interest and to say there was no inflation, so if your inflation numbers are from official sources for that period, they are not true, inflation increased every year since 2002.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by sleepingadmin on Friday January 28, 2022 @08:25AM (#30114246)
>Just an FYI, the government at that time (which is the current government) fudged the official inflation numbers to pay less interest and to say there was no inflation, so if your inflation numbers are from official sources for that period, they are not true, inflation increased every year since 2002.

From the numbers it doesn't suggest Greece levels of fudging. There was a few cases where it looke suspicious to be sure. Given the constant dipping into recession. They probably couldn't fudge it as muchas they please.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by valcron1000 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:05PM (#30106668)
As an argentine this is a spot on summary. We are in a shitty situation and things are just gonna wet worse
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by sleepingadmin on Friday January 28, 2022 @08:42AM (#30114430)
>As an argentine this is a spot on summary. We are in a shitty situation and things are just gonna wet worse

Do you feel the elections are fair? Mandatory voting is a thing eh? Yet still just a 2 party system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Proposal#Economic_i...

Like they are obviously proposing some good options, but they didnt do anything near necessary between 2015 and 2019 and then lost the next election?

Is there any talks of revolution? Probably would have the be violent. Frankly a worse situation than the seemingly ineffective government you have.

If I were to make a suggestion, the world is large. You can move to a country that isn't going to be so broken for the foreseeable future. The move will be painful, but its an investment in yourself and your family.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/ca...

I'm Canadian, but we have a large economic immigration system. You're obviously a tech and know english. You're likely going to be approved quickly.

Because of our relationship with World War 2, we have a worker shortage of 2030 going to hurt us badly. We need people to fill that hole.

Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by notch656a on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:23PM (#30106916)
Given that large businesses are taxed and impeded to hell and employees are taxed to the bone, is there any leg up for those running a single man sole proprietorship running business informally? As a total outsider I feel like there's a special niche area left for 1 man run-his-own-business opportunities to make a living here by exploiting the structural problems that weaken the marketability of larger business.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by user-one1 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:07PM (#30110280)
Poverty in Argentina is already at 40% and extreme poverty at 10%. But I agree with you, it's only going to get worse.
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by testfoobar on Thursday January 27, 2022 @11:56PM (#30110835)
"Inflation is always and everywhere are monetary phenomenon."
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by pmcollins on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:55AM (#30102039)
gov’t insiders printing money
Re:In Argentina, inflation is a way of life by harpiaharpyja on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:45AM (#30101909)
It's pretty bizarre.