There have been side effects from the vaccine, including documented cases of really bad reactions [1],[2]. I’m double vaxxed, boosted, and got covid. But to say the shot is without risks is disingenuous.

That said, the risk of dying unvaccinated from COVID is much greater than the risks of vaccine. And it’s unclear if side effects from the shot are correlated to worse outcomes from COVID (e.g. It’s unknown if these people who were paralyzed definitely would have died when they contracted covid, so paralysis is a potentially better outcome).

[1] https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-stories/every-day-that-i-work-...

[2] https://www.wkrn.com/news/nashville-woman-partially-paralyze...

The relevant risk for your situation is vaccine risk, versus risk of reinfection (not just hospitalization, but also long term effects).

The math may still work out for your preferred choice, but i wanted to point out that it’s fallacious to dismiss the (rare) risks from reinfection, especially when focusing on the (rare) risks from the vaccine.

You may have said this and I just missed it, but both those risks are small and honestly boils down to a preference IMO. I may just have missed in your comment where you made the right comparison, in which case I’m being a bit pedantic without cause and I apologize.

I don't think you'll get any more functional immunity from an extra shot of vaccine compared to two and an infection. So the benefit side of the calculation is lacking.

While the vaccine risks are very small, they're also highest for those who have had the actual infection. There will be little bits of virus lingering in my body for a long time. If I get that vaccine, my immune system is going to go ape attacking them, and maybe do some collateral damage in the process.

To be clear, I still think the risk is small, but so is is the benefit. I don't think it's worth it.

Thanks for writing a detailed comment of your thinking, I think we both are evaluating it the same way, I just wasn't very clear with my initial wording.

> I don't think you'll get any more functional immunity from an extra shot of vaccine compared to two and an infection.

The evidence disagrees with your opinion.

You really went out of your way, there, to cover any potential misinterpretation. Thanks for being a considerate part of the community!

my first 2 shots were fine, but my booster f'ed me up. I was in lots of body pain for 36 hours. 5 weeks later I caught omicron. I imagine by some point this year Ill be considered not fully vaccinated, but right now my desire to get another booster is very small.

right now we know that even the booster provides little ability to stop you from getting omicron. likely by the next mandated booster the variant of the time will also easily surpass the booster.

> right now we know that even the booster provides little ability to stop you from getting omicron

This is true, but the data is showing that being boosted means that catching Omicron when boosted means you are much, much more likely to have a very minor illness. Refusing future boosters comes at the risk of your own health, as well as the health of the people around you.

> Refusing future boosters comes at the risk of your own health, as well as the health of the people around you.

And some scientists think that repeated boosters will backfire and lead to waning immunity or at least immunity better centered around the exact strain the vaccine is made (so could be mitigated by different boosters). Plus downsides of repeatedly have to make time to get boosters, taking doses from people who haven't even had the opportunity to get a single dose. Differences in risk between a healthy under 30 and an unhealthy over 65.

It's possible that your statement is correct for some demographics and incorrect for others. But that nuance is not in the current discussion or the current mandates; and that nuance could save lives in less-developed countries.

> And some scientists think that repeated boosters will backfire and lead to waning immunity

* citation needed *

> or at least immunity better centered around the exact strain the vaccine is made

Given how mRNA vaccines work, there's nothing stopping the producers from putting as many different "instructions" as they wish in a single dose. But anyways, again * citation needed *

> Plus downsides of repeatedly have to make time to get boosters

Boo frickin' hoo. Even if we have to get quarterly boosters, that's four times a year. You're on Hacker News, you obviously have spare time on your hands.

> taking doses from people who haven't even had the opportunity to get a single dose

At this point, in the developed world, there's no one left who hasn't had "the opportunity to get a single dose." In fact, we have vaccines going bad due to anti-vaxers refusing to get vaccinated. And realize that a vial of vaccine sitting in the WalMart or CVS down the street isn't going to magically get repositioned to Africa due to Americans refusing it.

> Differences in risk between a healthy under 30 and an unhealthy over 65.

You know what drastically lowers the risks of COVID infection, both in terms of getting infected in the first place and the chance of bad outcomes if you do contract it? GETTING VACCINATED.

> throw_nbvc1234 1 hour ago | parent | context | flag | on: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine ...

> Refusing future boosters comes at the risk of your own health, as well as the health of the people around you. And some scientists think that repeated boosters will backfire and lead to waning immunity or at least immunity better centered around the exact strain the vaccine is made (so could be mitigated by different boosters). Plus downsides of repeatedly have to make time to get boosters, taking doses from people who haven't even had the opportunity to get a single dose. Differences in risk between a healthy under 30 and an unhealthy over 65.

It's possible that your statement is correct for some demographics and incorrect for others. But that nuance is not in the current discussion or the current mandates; and that nuance could save lives in less-developed countries.

Based on your comment history, you're American, so you're not helping anyone in "less-developed" countries by refusing a vaccine. You're just exposing yourself and your community to a higher level of risk.

> as well as the health of the people around you

'the science' says you are wrong. the vaccines do not prevent spread. that is very very very clear in the data now, so stop spreading that nonsense

that assumption relied on at least 3 things being true: #1 ) having lower symptoms from the vaccine would not encourage those shedding the virus but not being observably sick to go out and spread the disease (*hint this is probably a pretty bad assumption) #2 ) the vaccine would reduce viral load #3 ) a reduction of viral load would prevent you from spreading it to others

It turns out the vaccine does not lower viral load. and even though this has been shown to be medically true, you can see that in places like Isreal and Germany where the virus spreads pretty easily. hell, even in the US, you dont get nearly 1m cases a day without vaccinated people spreading it.

I'm curious what you think of situations like mine:

I have MS, and I'm not sure that frequently boosting my immune system when I have an autoimmune disease is the best idea. In addition, I'm in a single-income WFH household and we easily isolated when we got omicron. My sister and I literally caught Omicron together and just quarantined for 14 days. We had our mother drop off stuff on the doorstep so we didn't have to go out/expose anyone. It was boring, but I'm damn sure we didn't infect anyone.

I'm a software developer, not a medical professional, so my opinion doesn't really matter for your situation. What I will say is that it took three seconds to google "covid vaccine multiple sclerosis" and I came to the National Multiple Sclerosis Society's COVID-19 page which says, "People with MS should be vaccinated against COVID-19...None of the available vaccines contain live virus and the vaccines will not cause COVID-19. The vaccines are not likely to trigger an MS relapse or have any impact on long-term disease progression. The risk of getting COVID-19 far outweighs any risk of having an MS relapse from the vaccine."

I'm double-vaccinated, I'm just not boosted. (I'm similar to someone else in this thread in that I was waiting for more information before getting boosted and caught Omicron first). I think boosters are a good idea for the general population, I just think that there might be a difference between 2 doses once and repeated activation of the immune system. Also there's a difference between the risk posed by the original variant or Delta vs. Omicron.

Plus to be completely blunt, "not likely to trigger an MS relapse or have any impact on long-term disease progression" isn't language to inspire confidence. To be fair, I think we understand the vaccines pretty damn well, it's MS that I think we might not understand well enough here.

I'm fully boosted, sat directly across from a friend in a bar booth for over an hour last weekend (figure about 2.5 feet/80cm). She tested positive the next days. I tested negative with PCR twice in the last week however. If was unboosted, much less unvaccinated, I'm 100% sure I'd be positive.

well congratulations, I'm boosted and it didnt mean shit, you were probably just lucky

Actually, you were unlucky.

Also, did you end up in the hospital? Did you die?

Because by being vaxxed and boosted you greatly increased your chances of having the chance to post ill-informed comments on Hacker News post-recovery.

Omicron rarely sends people to the hospital. check that, so does all other variants of covid19; however, omicron does so at about the same levels as the flu - with or without vaccination. However, stop trying to change the narrative. the comment was that they think they didnt get covid was because they were vaccinated - the idea that we must mandate vaccines because that stops the spread. it doesnt.

No I was not unlucky. get your head out of the sand, omicron breaks through the vaccine easily.

<pajama caste playbook> Because by being vaxxed and boosted you greatly increased your chances of having the chance to post ill-informed comments on Hacker News post-recovery.

hinting at censorship already are you, boy, you just follow the playbook dont you?

<pajama caste playbook> we need to mandate vaccinations and masks to stop the spread of covid

<data> that's not working

<understanding of how the vaccines work> this is not how the vaccines work

<non pajama caste> you are violating my cival rights

<pajama caste playbook> well it prevents severe disease. you need to be censored for misinformation. you need to be prevented from going outside so I can feel safe because vaccination prevents the spread of covid.

<pajama caste playbook> you hate science, science works by censoring those who disagree with the proposed opinion. I worship science so I am the superior caste. I am science, I am good

Who hurt you?

Listen, if you're hell bent on willfully increasing your risk of death/hospitalization, that's on you. The simple fact is being vaccinated drastically reduces the risk of that.

Does the current vaccine work as well against Omicron as it did against prior variants? No. But does it work better than literally doing nothing? Yes.

And yes, you were unlucky. The vaccines are still 70+% effective at preventing breakthrough infections based on the data we currently have.

The vaccine is not ineffective. And it reduces the severity of the infection even in the case of a breakthrough.

And as far as OP is concerned, there is a high likelihood that their boosted status did protect them from infection.

> Who hurt you?

Every time I have to show my vaccination card to be in public.

> Listen, if you're hell bent on willfully increasing your risk of death/hospitalization, that's on you.

I am vaccinated and boosted. I MAY not want to get boosted AGAIN because it was extremely painful and made me sick for more than a day. I MAY not want to go through that again while taking into account what is happening in the FUTURE with the variants. but I may not have the right to make my own decision due to mandate fanatics

> And yes, you were unlucky. The vaccines are still 70+% effective at preventing breakthrough infections based on the data we currently have.

do you even know what that means? what does it mean to be '70% effective'? How long does this effectiveness last? effective against what (covid19, delta, omicron)? Are you talking about vaccinated 1, 2, or booster? I know personally 20 people who have gotten it. 15 vaccinated 5 Unvaccinated. We have been having more than 600k cases per day since the beginning of January. I'm guessing there is A LOT of break through cases in that.

> And as far as OP is concerned, there is a high likelihood that their boosted status did protect them from infection.

If they were sitting across from me when I was feverish from omi, they would have gotten it. keep in mind, I was infected by someone who was vaccinated.

> as well as the health of the people around you

'the science' says you are wrong. the vaccines do not prevent spread. that is very very very clear in the data now, so stop spreading that nonsense

Inflammation, memory loss, swollen lymph, chest pains, feeling sicks for months, no energy, trouble breathing.

You thought the vaccines were risk free?

The ability for humans to focus on a vanishingly small risk of side-effects to justify taking a much larger risk by refusing to vaccinate is mind-boggling to me.

It's the same argument that people use to justify not wearing a seat belt. "There's types of wrecks where being unbelted is actually safer!" Well, sure, but those are an extremely tiny portion of wrecks, and you're vastly safer in the vast, vast majority of wrecks wearing a seat belt.

Get the damned vaccine. If you experience side effects, then that sucks, you lost the lottery. The CDC reports:

* Anaphylaxis happens to 5 people per million vaccinated. (0.0005% rate)

* Thrombosis with TTS after J&J vaccine. 57 confirmed in more than 18 million doses (0.0003% rate)

* GBS after J&J vaccine. 302 cases in more than 18 million doses (0.0017% rate)

* Myocarditis. 1233 reports in total.

* Death. 11,657 deaths among vaccinated. Note that this is death for any reason. A vaccinated person mauled to death by a bear is counted here. (0.0022% rate)

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...

* edit for formatting

For young males, the risk of myocarditis strikes me as underappreciated. To quote the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/09/health/researchers-find-a...):

"Males between 16 and 29 years of age have an increased risk of developing heart problems after receiving a second dose of coronavirus vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNtech or Moderna, according to a large new analysis published on Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

The study, conducted in Israel, estimated that nearly 11 of every 100,000 males in that age group developed myocarditis, inflammation of the heart, a few days after having been fully vaccinated."

OH NO! 11 out of 100,000 males!!! GOD FORBID!! That's 0.011%!! The risk is so high!!!!

Why don't we just quote the part you conveniently left out: "For every million vaccinated boys ages 12 to 17, the shots might cause a maximum of 70 myocarditis cases, but would prevent 5,700 infections, 215 hospitalizations and two deaths, the agency has estimated... One of the new studies looked at data from 2.5 million vaccinated members of Israel’s largest health care network who were aged 16 years or above. The researchers identified 54 cases of myocarditis, and deemed 41 of them to be mild."

So 54 cases out of 2.5 million people vaccinated. And it likely prevented over 10,000 infections, 500 hospitalizations, and 5 deaths. It really, really sucks for those folks. But the benefits VASTLY (orders of magnitude) outweigh the risks.

The risk isn't "underappreciated." The risk is statistically insignificant compared to the protection offered by vaccination.

Isn't myocarditis something you can get when you have a virus (even non-Covid). I wonder what the myocarditis rates are for covid patients in that age range

Those are the major reported prizes. There are many more high tension, depressed, generally unwell, joints swelling winners with brain fog.

It's gamble, the next booster might be the one that gets you. And you'll need a booster because it only lasts a few months anyhow.

This isn't a "gamble." No one would gamble if the house offered these odds. The gamble is NOT getting the vaccine. You're gambling with your life, possibly. And you're much more likely to get a "prize" like death, hospitalization, long COVID, etc if you refuse to get vaccinated. Like tens or even hundreds of thousands of times more likely.