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Re:AirPods don't “just work” by chii on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:23AM (#30085711)
I used to be like you. Then i tried, for real, a pair of bluetooth headphones.

The disadvantages of the bluetooth is by far outweighed by the wireless advantage. The mobility, flexibility and convenience of no tangles and accidental wire pulling and causing phone to drop - all worth it.

And wireless UX is only going to get better. Wired is dead.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by delecti on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:30AM (#30085798)
I will stick with wired headphones for the overwhelming majority of usecases. There are just not enough downsides to cables compared to never needing to switch audio devices in a conferencing app, awkwardly change OS settings before jumping on a call, or ever charging my headphones.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by openknot on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:51AM (#30086097)
>The mobility, flexibility and convenience of no tangles and accidental wire pulling and causing phone to drop - all worth it.

You can thread the wired headphone/IEM cord under your shirt, or even over your ear and down your back [0] to prevent tangles and wire pulling that causes a phone to drop.

It's less convenient than wireless earphones, but it solves the problem, and comes with advantages (better noise isolation and sound quality with certain models, plus you don't need to worry about the batteries degrading and having to buy a new pair after possibly 2-3 years, so you save money). I'm considering switching back to wired after my current AirPods pair dies for these advantages.

>Wired is dead

Not at all. You can get high-quality, professional earphones (in-ear monitors or IEMs) that fit in a pouch in your pocket, which are great for people in loud environments (better than noise cancelling due to their noise isolation); who appreciate music (sound quality is noticeably better for any genre); or who do professional audio work.

[0] https://imgur.com/QOSNA9T

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by strogonoff on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:03AM (#30086310)
Having cycled through WH1000XM3, XM4, AirPods Pro, I am back to my trusty Shure SE215 that I use wired.

— They never deafen me with connected/disconnected sounds (which can never be configured quiet enough) or music briefly playing at insane volume after switching or connecting.

— I know I get the source quality.

— I would never lose one randomly (always a chance with “true wireless” models).

— I don’t get weird phased low-frequency rumble from active noise compensation gone wonky.

— Most of all, their passive noise suppression with Shure’s black sleeves, depending on exact noise profile either beats or is on par with top-of-the-line active isolation (both according to rtings’ test benches and my subjective experience), and does not end when battery runs out inevitably at the most inconvenient time.

Addendum: 1) I connect them via a tiny Ikko Zerda DAC, which I started using way back when I still had a phone with a headphone jack (this is subjective, but with lossless sources I hear more detail—as in literally small instrument parts I didn’t hear before in complex arrangements—compared to built-in DAC). 2) I generally pass the wire under the top layer of clothing, and personally taking an earbud out and letting it dangle is about as difficult as switching on the transparent mode on AirPods (and without audio degradation inherent to such modes).

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by grp000 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:49AM (#30086935)
As far as their SE215 model goes, the sound, isolation, and ergonomics are great, but I've always had issues with the cable breaking at the ear curve next to the connection point to the earbuds.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by strogonoff on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:26AM (#30087509)
Now that you say it, I’m not using the original cable, and I don’t recall what happened to it because it’s been so long ago (could’ve been a similar issue to the one you described).

I couldn’t find a Shure original cable to replace mine with right away, so I got a compatible one and been rolling with it ever since. It’s slightly thinner, more flexible and without the thicker malleable parts near earbud connections. I was cautious about those differences at first, but in the end grown to prefer it more than the original, these thin wires wrap around my ears just fine.

As a side note, one of the things I treasure about the design of these IEMs is the replaceability of the cable. The IEMs themselves can probably survive for ages, which gives a nice feeling among the increasingly disposable electronics—I just hope the model would still exist on the market when something eventually happens to my unit.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by greedo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:11PM (#30088260)
It's been awhile since I used Shure's in ear monitors, but they once sent me a kit with one of everything in that part of their product line. Nice stuff, and if you can tolerate in-ear stuff, incredible sound. But all the cables failed over time. Not heavily used either. They were great about sending replacements, but they were very aware of the reliability issues. And these were monitors that had MSRPs over $800.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by strogonoff on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @02:05PM (#30090179)
Cables (as well as sleeves) are certainly the disposable part of IEMs like these. Earbuds themselves proved incredibly reliable to me (compared to AirPods Pro at least, which I had to exchange once and which still had problems after that).

Also, SE215 cost much, much less than US$800. More like $100.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by grp000 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @03:10PM (#30091011)
Yeah, I have two pairs of SE215s for convenience. But, replacement OEM cables cost 20-30$, and maybe it's the geometry of my ears, but I've had to replace 3-4 cables by now, since the cables, OEM or not, kept failing at the same section, at that metal wire you bend over your ear.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by strogonoff on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @04:19PM (#30092036)
I see. Well, YMMV but you could try a different type of cable. There are cables not using metal wires that you bend around the ears, but the same thin flexible cable throughout the entire length. I have not had problems with one in more than a couple of years of use.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by DangerousPie on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:57AM (#30086192)
Sure, you can work around the limitations of wired head phones. But at the end it's just not worth the trouble for many of us. I ditched my wired head phones years ago and haven't regretted it.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by munk-a on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:10AM (#30086399)
Or you can work around the limitations of wireless headphones. At the end of the day both choices have advantages and consumers can freely chose one or the other (or both for different situations!) just so long as no manufacturer is stupid enough to remove headphone jacks from their mobile music devices we'll all be good.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by The_Colonel on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:51AM (#30086950)
It's a dying breed, but there are still many phones with audio jack. I don't think it will disappear completely.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by eertami on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:12AM (#30086426)
>Wired is dead

For as long as we both live, manufacturers will make wired headphones, and people will buy them. Latency and quality might not be important to the casual user, but for some wired headphones and speakers will be, and will always be, essential.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by xg15 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:25AM (#30085753)
The mobility, flexibility snd convenience of me still sitting on front of the same PC for eight hours?
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:31AM (#30085823)
I've got some Sony bluetooth / noise cancelling headphones, I don't like the lag but that's only an issue for videos and it switches to low latency (low quality) for voice calls. But I really appreciate not managing a cable, it's always in the way, or touching my arm or something (some sensory things really annoy me while sitting at a computer). Plus, great battery life.

And it Just Works. Although my Mac has a tendency to switch back to my speakers (also bluetooth) after ~15 minutes without my input, that's really annoying. Might have to do with the speakers turning themselves off?

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:41AM (#30085955)
> And it Just Works. Although my Mac has a tendency to switch back to my speakers (also bluetooth) after ~15 minutes without my input, that's really annoying.

So, what you're saying is, it doesn't just work!

I promise I’m not trying to be sassy! This is exactly the type of issue I always run into with wireless audio, and basically never experience with wired headphones. I hate these types of little, persistent annoyances.

I don't like wires either, to be clear, but I think they're a small price to pay for their reliability.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by heleninboodler on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:45AM (#30087834)
I agree completely. Little gnomes never sneak up on me and switch the wire from one device to another, then demand I go through weird unplug/plug rituals involving four levels of deep-presses to get the thing connected back to the device I want, all while 20 people are waiting for me to start a presentation. The signal doesn't randomly drop out or connect to the car that just pulled in the driveway. The batteries don't go dead.

The point is predictability. Wires have it, bluetooth doesn't. Yes, they predictably snag on things sometimes. In my experience, this annoyance happens far less frequently than any of the many annoyances that bluetooth brings.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by thow-58d4e8b on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:01AM (#30087103)
There's one major annoyance with Sony headphones and earbuds - no way to mute/unmute yourself - you must walk back to your laptop to do it. Why, oh why, Sony?
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by ziml77 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:00AM (#30086260)
I have a wireless headset for my PC and it's hard to go back to wired. I have much nicer wired headphones, but I rarely switch to them. Being able to get up and walk around while not interrupting what I'm listening to is great (yes desktop speakers would let me do the same but they also let everyone hear what I'm hearing). Also with wired headphones I had a constant issue where no matter how I routed them, they would end up tangled in my chair. It was super easy to think they were resting safely on my desk, only to turn my chair and fling them to the floor.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by nisegami on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:28AM (#30085781)
Use the right tool for the job. Sometimes that's wired headphones. Sometimes that's bluetooth headphones.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by dspillett on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:35AM (#30085868)
Though being able to use the right tool, in circumstances where that is a wired set, can be a problem on some platforms.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by openknot on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:54AM (#30086151)
This is true (iPhones, iPads, and plenty of Android phones these days), but can be mitigated by carrying a USB-C to 3.5 mm audio adapter in the pouch that contains the IEMs. I wish people didn't have to, but it's a straightforward solution that widely improves wired compatibility.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by pritambaral on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:00PM (#30088078)
> ... that widely improves wired compatibility.

"Wired compatibility" was ubiquitous before. It didn't have room to "improve". Removing the jack is what broke "wired compatibility".

Needing a dongle for sth is not an "improved" form of using it, when you could have just used it without a dongle.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by openknot on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:07PM (#30089223)
Adding a small adapter to where you carry your wired headphones fixes the problem of the current reality where many devices do not have audio jacks. My assertion is to provide a practical solution to the current state of affairs, instead of claiming that the present is better than the past state of affairs (where there were ubiquitous audio jacks) due to audio adapters.

Due to forces beyond the individual's control, it's highly unlikely that audio jacks will once more become ubiquitous, so the second-best outcome is for wired headphone users to start carrying an adapter.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by pritambaral on Friday February 04, 2022 @11:25PM (#30217411)
That's entirely besides the point.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by criddell on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:51AM (#30086099)
The "right tool" might be an adapter or hub.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by chrisseaton on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:50AM (#30086079)
Do you never get up to make a drink or something?
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by mattnewton on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:19AM (#30087398)
I am still like OP. I have tried three pairs of airpods and currently use a Bose Bluetooth headphones with an optional attachable wire. Airpods are very painful for more than two devices, get lost, go through the wash, forget the charging cable, etc etc. The problem for me is that apple removed the headphone jack even as an option, and many other phone manufacturers copied that on all but their budget models.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by rgreasons on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:32AM (#30087627)
If one of your concerns is that you end up washing your headphones, you’re right - I don’t think you’re ready for wireless earbuds.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by mattnewton on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @02:54PM (#30090784)
It's possible it wasn't your intent but this reads as condescending to me. It implies a progression where people can become "ready" to use a more advanced product rather than the product not being a good fit for the person which I think is a good way to blind yourself to real product problems. Instead of just saying "people drop their phones, maybe they aren't ready for expensive things" you can realize the incredible market that phone cases represent. Or in this case, maybe there is a market for waterproof wireless earbuds that survive the wash, that counteracts the additional manufacturing cost (probably not, but maybe).

Obviously the airpods are great for a great number of people, and I bought them too. I think it's safe to say Apple made good tradeoffs for their business. I ended up switching back to heaphones with a wired option and then switching phones to get a headphone jack because the dongle annoyed me enough. I am very much in a minority - don't get me wrong, apple will not miss my business. But that they lost it should be a conscious decision as "this won't work for everyone, but it will work for most people really well by default" - not, "when people are ready for it they will see the light". The former forces you to acknowledge and quantify who it won't work for when finding product market fit, and the later assumes you don't need to do that.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by rkangel on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:50AM (#30087933)
I agree. I only got a pair of earbuds because they cam free with my phone but I was surprised by how lifechanging they were. Not in an important way, but in a low key and pervasive way.

There are two situations where earbuds are far more convenient:

Getting ready in the morning - I can put the earbuds in once I'm out of the shower and dried off and listen to a podcast. They don't get in the way of getting dressed, moving around etc.. This is just not workable with wired headphones and my partner has already started work so I can't use a speaker, and even if I could I'm moving between different rooms and floors of the house.

Driving - getting headphones out of your pocket, untangling them and putting them in is basically impossible to do (safely) while driving. But earbuds are never tangled I can just open the case and put them in all while my eyes never leave the road. Means I can make phonecalls or listen to stuff easily and safely. This is a particular case of them just being quicker and easier to put in than wired earbuds - no having to thread it down your jumper just because you want to watch a 5 minute YouTube video.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by silent_cal on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:52AM (#30086122)
Did you try putting the wire under your clothes or something?
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by greedo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:13PM (#30088282)
That's incredibly inconvenient and often uncomfortable.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by dimmke on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:33AM (#30085846)
It's also pretty much confirmed at this point that the next pair of AirPods won't be using bluetooth - which they will get a lot of shit for but is probably necessary to address a lot of these issues.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:37AM (#30085896)
That also further increases the interoperability problem though, if I can't use my headphones with non-Apple devices even after going through the pairing dance. (Unless Apple uses some other open protocol, which I doubt!)
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by openknot on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:43AM (#30085975)
Yes, AirPods are currently surprisingly easy to switch from an iPhone to a Windows laptop (click open the Bluetooth menu and connect to AirPods), which is quite similar to the behavior I use to switch between AirPods and a Mac (I rarely use the "Switch to AirPods" notification on Macs that pops up seemingly-inconsistently).
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by elondaits on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:54AM (#30086146)
I understand it’d be an issue to many people, but I had Airpods for 5? years now and not even once paired them to anything other than an Apple device. I have non-apple BT speakers but don’t have any BT transmitting devices that aren’t Apple… my LG TV maybe (which I use with an Apple TV) but I assume pairing them would be a pain.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by thebean11 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:45AM (#30086008)
I hope it's an open protocol that operates on WiFi spectrum. Every implementation of Bluetooth is horrible, and you start to wonder if the Bluetooth spec itself is the issue..
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:48AM (#30086048)
Fwiw, Bluetooth does operate on the same spectrum as WiFi. But I agree about the Bluetooth spec.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by ziml77 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:05AM (#30086324)
I hope you mean the 5 or 6GHz range. Bluetooth already runs at 2.4GHz, but that frequency band is cluttered as all heck.

An open protocol would be excellent though.

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by thebean11 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:48AM (#30086923)
Yeah sure, I really don't know much about wireless spectrum. It just needs to be something that existing hardware supports.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by criddell on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:53AM (#30086132)
If Apple does go proprietary you won't be any worse off, assuming they still support Bluetooth (and I'd be very surprised if they stopped supporting Bluetooth).
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by acomjean on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:29AM (#30086649)
They’ll keep Bluetooth. The “find my” airtag eco system depends on it. Plus car audio and external speakers.

I always wonder if the removal of the headphone jack was a ploy to get iPhone users to use Bluetooth so the find my network worked better..

Re:AirPods don't “just work” by vel0city on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:34PM (#30089691)
I don't think pushing users to Bluetooth is a ploy to get more users to use Bluetooth. Toggling Bluetooth off only means the user-land applications can't use Bluetooth, the system might still use it for location-based services, if those are enabled. The "Find My" network would probably do a similar thing of piggybacking on such a feature.
Re:AirPods don't “just work” by freeflight on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:13AM (#30086442)
Is Apple working on their own proprietary Bluetooth or what are future AirPods gonna use to connect?