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Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by amelius on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:25AM (#30072077)
Russians had the Buran, with more or less the same dimensions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_(spacecraft)

Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by wongarsu on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:35AM (#30072191)
I've heard the (probably unfounded) story that the Soviets saw the Space Shuttle, couldn't figure out why the Americans would build it but figured there surely must be a good reason; so they copied it to also have whatever capability the Americans were after.
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by cronix on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:34PM (#30074864)
It's not unfounded, and they knew about it before it ever flew once. A family member was in the CIA at the time (later at NSA and RAND) and played a role after they were sent to the USSR after graduating college to study Russian (paid for by CIA, they know 8 languages). They translated the technical Russian Buran plans/documents and decoded them for our scientists to compare to their own, as well as help slip design flaws into plans they knew would get stolen (because they knew who was stealing them from Nasa). They met with the president over the issue multiple times. True story. They were also involved in every stealth program until they retired in the early 2k's. They were in the pentagon when the plane struck on 9/11. I really wish I could get them to talk more or write a book lol. [Using "they" to avoid gendering family member]

The Soviets (at the time) didn't "copy" it. They stole the plans and made it from them, adding in a few alterations, although the plans they stole were purposefully flawed.

If you're up for it, you can visit the Buran's in their final resting place in Baikonur. They're just sitting there rotting away. Here's a video of some kids who broke in and had some fun exploring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q7ZVXOU3kM

Article about the Soviet's espionage to get the plans: https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/12/buran-how-russia-stole-t...

Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by FredPret on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:31PM (#30076795)
There’s a fantastic book about the stealth program by the former director of the Skunk Works, Ben Rich
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by aksss on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:04PM (#30076393)
In re the youtube vid, that's a flippin' huge hanger. Crazy that this stuff is sitting dormant.
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by wolverine876 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @05:34PM (#30079078)
They told you about these highly classified operations?
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by cronix on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:12PM (#30081206)
It's not classified anymore (I linked to a story that gives more info than I did), and you can be sure they won't tell me most details of things I ask about. If you think they sit there and tell me state secrets, think again lol. They're quite frustrating to talk to about this kind of stuff with because they won't answer most questions, or answer vaguely, and give absolutely no visual or audio indication of what they're thinking or what the answer might be. No wink-wink nod-nod. Completely dead-pan. You don't get to the level they were at by not understanding what you can and can't talk about. They don't slip up when drinking. They're still active in the community in the public sector side post retiring.
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:11AM (#30072619)
Buran was also superior in capabilities; greater lift capacity, ability to transport more people, and attain higher orbits. It could also perform a mission entirely autonomously.

The US Space Shuttle was the (heavy) inspiration, but the Soviets put their own spin on it.

Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by wolverine876 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @11:41AM (#30073978)
It had one test flight. Hardly comparable to a system which had (six?) models fully deployed and operational.
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by avmich on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @07:58PM (#30080314)
Five Shuttles flew to space - Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, Atlantis, Endeavour. And Buran - the one which flew (other Soviet spaceplanes would have different names, so Buran is like Columbia, not like Space Shuttle) - didn't have e.g. the life support system; it was rather a development flight, than a demonstration of a complete system. Still Buran (as a combined name, like Energiya-Buran program) had some better capabilities e.g. no toxic propellants onboard (Shuttle has to be chemically "pacified" after each landing) and longer orbital life (with cryogenics onboard).
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by wolverine876 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:59PM (#30081123)
> Buran (as a combined name, like Energiya-Buran program) had some better capabilities e.g. no toxic propellants onboard (Shuttle has to be chemically "pacified" after each landing) and longer orbital life (with cryogenics onboard).

My point is that they aren't capabilities, just specifications and promises for a cutting edge, developmental technology.

Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by rtkwe on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:06AM (#30085504)
It didn't fail for any technical reason though, the whole government behind it was stumbling at the time on it's way to full collapse from a heady medley of internal and external forces.
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by ch4s3 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:45AM (#30073084)
That's the second mover advantage right?
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:59AM (#30073277)
That's part of it (with regards to rocket motor tech). The other is that the Soviet's designed the vehicle through a different process, versus the American's where it was design by committee (between NASA and the DoD [1]).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_design_process

Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by dharmab on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:32AM (#30072891)
According to a book cited on the Wikipedia page on the Buran program, the Soviets looked at the shuttle's payload capacity and concluded it could be used to deploy military weapons into orbit.
Re:James Webb telescope reaches its final destination in spa... by jandrese on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:48PM (#30075132)
Any orbital rocket can deploy weapons into orbit. The Shuttle was unique in that it could theoretically capture a satellite and return to Earth with it.