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Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by xvector on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:15PM (#30051643)
The amount of trust that providers put in phone numbers is absolutely insane.
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by Avamander on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:57PM (#30052008)
That aspect is significantly worsened if your country has had proper electronic IDs for nearly two decades. I laugh my ass off but also shed a tear each and every time some foreign provider asks for "identification". Security questions, electrical bills and selfies, medieval garbage. But I guess I should be happy fax usage has dwindled somewhat.
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by prirun on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:11PM (#30052098)
Fax usage has not dwindled at all for hospital medical records; it's still the primary way of transferring records from one hospital to another if they don't have the same computer software running the hospital. It's ridiculous.
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by dvsfish on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:26PM (#30052168)
Is this a niche waiting to be exploited?
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by nextos on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:27PM (#30052177)
Yes. The public good derived from sane EHR interoperability would be enormous. Lower costs, better treatments, more informed policies...

But there are lots of political barriers. NHS is trying, and pretty open to private tenders. I'm actually working on a very related field.

Smaller or more atomized healthcare systems than NHS would be probably even difficult to deal with initially.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by prirun on Monday January 24, 2022 @10:16AM (#30058628)
I'm pretty sure in the US the barriers are also commercial, ie, Epic (a huge hospital software company) is not going to make it easy to do digital transfers of their patient data to non-Epic computer systems. Only the small-fry software companies will want this.

What needs to happens is for the US federal government to issue a mandate: if a hospital wants to get federal dollars (Medicare, etc), its computer system has to comply with the FXHR rules (Federal eXchange for Health Records, or whatever they want to call it). To establish FXHR, they get the top 5 vendors in a room and tell them that they WILL come up with a data exchange protocol and format within x months. They did this with HIPPA, they can do it with data exchange too.

And it is sorely needed. I went to Mayo Clinic for a week, which generated 80 pages of medical reports. To get these transferred to my regular doctors, I had to call Mayo, request the transfer, and they had to schedule the transfer, which sometimes took up to a week. This isn't because they are inefficient (far from it). It's because when they do a fax, sometimes the fax machine isn't on, so it can't go through. They have to retry until they get through. The receiving machine ran out of paper. Etc. It's ridiculous.

Beyond that, I watched my eye doctor try to flip through 80 pages of crap that mostly didn't relate to him to find the pages that were eye related. None of this has any structure; it's just a bunch of pages of text. Horribly inefficient use of his time, and very likely he would miss something important. You want to see blood test results? Well, I had about 10 of them testing various things, and the lab results are spread all through the report. Good luck finding what you want. Truly a mess, and the large software companies have zero incentive to fix this problem. Their goal is to be "the one to rule them all", or at least one of the few. And when there are only a few, there still won't be any data exchange, because they will be duking it out with each other.

Government screws stuff up all the time, but so do private companies, and government is the only player in a position to force the private companies to do the right thing.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by Silhouette on Monday January 24, 2022 @01:09AM (#30054199)
The trouble with this issue for the NHS is that UK governments have tried to give away access to the most sensitive of records on a national scale so many times now and then rowed back in the face of predictable criticisms that the public would have to be collectively insane to allow broad access to medical records through any centralised system any time soon.

It is unfortunate because obviously in principle a single centrally-administered records facility with robust security and audit trails for all access and a Hippocratic Oath level of privacy protections would be far better than the status quo in many ways. But we have no constitutional way to establish adequate legally binding safeguards that some later government can't just overturn for its own convenience in the future.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by CRConrad on Monday January 24, 2022 @05:09PM (#30064754)
> ...insane to allow broad access to medical records through any centralised system any time soon.

> It is unfortunate because obviously in principle a single centrally-administered records facility with robust security and audit trails for all access and a Hippocratic Oath level of privacy protections would be far better than the status quo in many ways.

Funny, one would have thought that pretty much is the status quo already: Looks to me like the UK already has (or should have) a single centrally-administered records facility with robust security and audit trails -- isn't that the NHS?

If it doesn't at the moment quite fulfill your requirements, it certainly ought to anyway, oughtn't it? So the problem is one of fixing its possible current deficiencies, not one of lacking it entirely. Or?

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by Silhouette on Monday January 24, 2022 @05:53PM (#30065240)
The NHS isn't really a single body at all. It's a vast, unimaginably complicated network of healthcare professionals, medical facilities, managerial organisations, supply chains, and so on, under the shared banner of being public-run and with strategic leadership appointed by the central government (modulo some devolution to different parts of the UK at various scales).

In normal circumstances an individual's primary point of contact with the NHS is supposed to be their GP, and the GP's surgery will normally hold the main medical records for each person under their care. But then other parts of the NHS, such as hospitals or therapists, may hold their own records in connection with the specialised treatments they provide. There are all kinds of protocols for sharing health records between clinical professionals who are directly responsible for a patient's care and potentially others and successive governments keep meddling with them in ways that make you nervous about those others and what they get to know and what they can do with it.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by CRConrad on Monday January 24, 2022 @07:16PM (#30066099)
Ah, thanks!

I kind of assumed there was some public administrative service run by the national government behind it all. That would have been the logical entity to run a central storage repository, and perhaps to administer and maybe even define the storage and transmission format(s). IMO.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by JAlexoid on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:13PM (#30052107)
LOL!

I just had an email from Mouser(online electronics store), that gave me the option to send in export for by fax...

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by nextos on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:10PM (#30052093)
I agree. I change my phone number often and this is annoying.

It's also very annoying that most EU banks rely on SMS codes to confirm transactions as it's quite easy to clone SIM cards. Yet they don't support real OATH OTP.

I hate Office 365, but I have to concede that their login is much more robust. I use passwords + OATH and it's truly reliable.

Gmail has locked me out very often for no clear reason. Besides they don't support TOTP unless you use a key or a phone app. So I can't use an airgapped device to store my keys.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by jounker on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:54PM (#30052331)
Not my experience in the germanic portions of Europe. Every bank i’ve been involved with in the last 20 years has had otps of one kind or another.
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by nextos on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:09PM (#30052451)
That's interesting. What 2FA system do they use exactly?

AFAIK, N26 still uses on-time codes sent by SMS which I regard as very insecure.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by jounker on Friday January 28, 2022 @02:57PM (#30119541)
It had completely depended on the bank. In the Netherlands, 20 years ago it was a hardware OTP device. Same with a big Swiss bank ten years ago. Up until a few years ago with a big german bank it was a physical sheet of OTPs. Now it’s a mobile app that either recognizes a challenge image, or receives a challenge by network.
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by Semaphor on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:44PM (#30053113)
N26 has always used their proprietary app confirmation. I never (in over 5 years) got an SMS instead from them. But that’s in Germany, maybe it differs between countries?
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by cassepipe on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:17PM (#30051663)
Or maybe do they really want your phone number? (Uninformed guess but isn't it valuable data?)
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by Semaphor on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:46PM (#30053128)
I was thinking that, when I tried to enable 2FA on Twitch. Allegedly, they support TOTP. But only after verifying your phone number. And they even check that it’s a mobile number (I tried using a VoIP number that can receive SMS).
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by notreallyserio on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:30PM (#30051777)
My phone number is probably the least valuable thing Amazon knows about me, I figure.
Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by novok on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:17PM (#30052127)
Phone numbers are basically super cookie identifiers unless you make a new phone number for each account and use different aliases & maybe addresses for them too. They all sell into centralized information systems and create profiles about you that are very detailed, which includes banking, income and credit info. So yes, the phone number is incredibly valuable, especially a place like amazon that shows different prices to different users and who's recommendation engine drives a lot of sales.

Phone 2 factor is pretty much the only kind of 2 factor most people will accept, and for most people the phone number probably has better security than most people's emails, because most people reuse passwords, while with phones you had to do a special non-password effort for them.

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by yeetaccount4 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:23PM (#30051719)
I’ve always figured this was what they wanted. They probably tie it to your IMEI so they can track you everywhere online and in the real world.

E: Seriously? This is a multi billion dollar industry. Oh no, Google would never do that…

Re:Ask HN: Gmail account security by dheera on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:10PM (#30052460)
Yeah I have a pool of virtual numbers and use them for any of this bull, and rotate them in/out. No business needs to know my phone number.