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Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by VoidWhisperer on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:24AM (#30036848)
Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? It is true that breakthrough infections exist, especially in something as transmissable as Omicron. However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill.

[1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by ls15 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:41AM (#30037014)
> Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated?

Yes, maybe. I think that there is no good data that supports that for people under 70 without co-morbidities.

> However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill.

Recently I found out that in my country at the peak of the most deadly wave only 5% of patients in hospitals were admitted because of Covid.

It does not prevent transmission, it does not stop hospitals from being overfilled and it does not stop symptomatic disease. What is a good science-based reason for mandatory vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 for everyone?

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by twofornone on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:41AM (#30037013)
Have you considered that 99%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic and that this reasoning amounts to confirmation bias? Especially with Omicron? Moreso in healthy people under 50 who are orders of magnitude less likely to suffer severe illness or complications.

The fact that you had mild symptoms, or any sort of symptoms for that matter, while vaccinated does not actually imply that you would have been substantially worse off without the vaccine, given the statistical likelihood of mild infection.

This isn't the damn plague and it's high time we stopped acting like it was.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by ls15 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @11:06AM (#30037828)
> Have you considered that 99%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic and that this reasoning amounts to confirmation bias? Especially with Omicron? Moreso in healthy people under 50 who are orders of magnitude less likely to suffer severe illness or complications.

Omicron is 90% less deadly than delta for unvaccinated people and there is a 100% lower risk to need mechanical ventilation, according to this paper:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v...

During the delta wave covid survivors had better immunization than people with only vaccination. This contradicts some of the mandates that are currently in place, such as in Germany, were people who previously recovered are still required to get a subsequent shot:

https://news.yahoo.com/natural-immunity-more-potent-vaccines...

> This isn't the damn plague and it's high time we stopped acting like it was.

During the pandemic I looked up information about the public reaction to the Spanish Flu. It was almost exactly the same, including vaccines with unclear efficacy and anti-mask groups. However, the Spanish Flu killed up to 50 million people while the world's population was only 1.6 billion and it only took a couple of months.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:30AM (#30036906)
This is called moving goalposts. The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms. If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by kspacewalk2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:49AM (#30037103)
The clinical trials for Pfizer and Moderna were testing for severe outcomes, not transmission. The vaccines got emergency use authorization based on that.

Some non-clinical studies suggested a drop in transmission (e.g. CDC study in spring 2021 which examined healthcare workers who got the jab early and were tested weekly), but it's clear now they were just picking up a transient effect, months long but wearing off thereafter.

So the mRNA vaccines are doing exactly what they were trialled to do 1.5 years ago. What your local politicians and public health authorities misunderstood from that is their problem.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by ls15 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @10:28AM (#30037491)
> What your local politicians and public health authorities misunderstood from that is their problem.

AND also my problem.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by stinos on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:42AM (#30037018)
The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms

Did you get this from an official source? I mean, no-one should have stated this because it is simply not true, nor has been for most common vaccins out there. At least in my country none of the official sources nor epidemiologists nor virologists ever said this. They'd only go as close as stating 'can prevent transmission in xx% of cases' or something like that.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by chrononaut on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:45AM (#30037051)
> If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted.

Are organizations still making policy decisions based on the specifics of the original application implications? Or from observation that it only notably reduces hospitalizations / symptom severity?

If the former is the case, that would warrant clarity, but I also have no idea what a resubmission process looks like. Is that a one week turnaround? Or is it six months with no vaccines being able to be distributed?

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by VoidWhisperer on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:35AM (#30036954)
To some reasonable level, the vaccines do prevent transmission. However, no vaccine is perfect - just look at the flu vaccine - even if the strains picked for the vaccine for the year are right, some people will still get the flu.

The vaccine helps to prepare your immune system to deal with the virus - in some cases that means it can fight it off entirely, or in other cases it will be able to fight it off quicker and your symptoms will be milder because your body is prepared.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:38AM (#30036979)
The FDA didn't approve the vaccines under emergency use to lessen the symptoms, only to prevent transmission.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by rsfern on Saturday January 22, 2022 @11:34AM (#30038110)
That’s not correct, the clinical trials explicitly measured symptomatic disease and not transmission

e.g. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @01:22PM (#30039344)
The applications specifically said that they are for prevention.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by rsfern on Saturday January 22, 2022 @03:00PM (#30040287)
The moderna application clearly distinguishes between Covid-19 (symptomatic disease) and SARS-CoV-2 infection, as the sibling comment says.

> On November 30, 2020, ModernaTX (the Sponsor, also referred to as Moderna) submitted an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) request to FDA for an investigational COVID-19 vaccine (mRNA-1273) intended to prevent COVID-19 caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2).

https://www.fda.gov/media/144673/download

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @05:10PM (#30051011)
Which is is not doing. Vaccinated people are still getting COVID-19.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by acdha on Saturday January 22, 2022 @01:45PM (#30039574)
Prevention of the disease, not just spread.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @02:54PM (#30040233)
People that are vaxxed are still getting the disease.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by acdha on Saturday January 22, 2022 @03:00PM (#30040293)
At a lower rate and with far less severity, which is exactly what we expected based on the initial data. Omicron's arrival means that more people are getting sick but when they do, it's still considerably less severe — which is good because Omicron is sending more people to the hospital even though it's ~40-50% less likely to do so compared to Delta.

I realize that you don't want to admit having been so wrong about this for so long but the evidence is very clear that the vaccines are safe and effective:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali...

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @04:29PM (#30041005)
Again, there you go quoting CDC ignoring the authorization which is for prevention and moving the goal posts quicker than QAnon. Some vaxxed people are in a constant state of Stockholm Syndrome. The evidence you speak of is unattainable at this point and VAERS is one of the only outlets which is significantly backlogged, and according to pro-vaxxers can't be trusted anymore because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by shadowgovt on Saturday January 22, 2022 @07:16PM (#30042281)
VAERS was never trustworthy as a raw data source, only as a source of information on what to investigate. It is the antithesis of medical research... Self-reported, no control for any known bias effects, no scrubbing for obviously erroneous data.

Here's a VAERS entry about a patient turning getting abducted by aliens and turning into the Incredible Hulk after the MMR vaccine. https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?IDNUMBER=221...

Reasoning from VAERS without controlled studies is, at best, like cutting the ends off a roast before you bake it because you heard your grandmother did it that way. At worst, it's like irradiating a spider and enticing it to bite you because you read once that somebody got spider powers that way.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by rsfern on Saturday January 22, 2022 @05:01PM (#30041238)
Why are you continuing to misrepresent the EUA documents? They don’t support your assertion. (If you point to where in the authorization docs they specify the goal is to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, I’ll change my mind. I linked the moderna application in another sub thread, and the pfizer one is easy to find)

Also VAERS is not the only data source we have for vaccine safety, it’s our hypothesis generation system. We have good data from the vaccine safety datalink system that let us actually quantify the risk of different side effects. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2021.15072

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @07:37PM (#30042427)
They clearly do, it is like the very first sentence:

https://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=14471&forma...

> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) to permit the emergency use of the unapproved product, Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, for active immunization to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 5 years of age and older.

https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/eua-fact-sheet-...

> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) to permit the emergency use of the unapproved product, MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE, for active immunization to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 18 years of age and older.

https://www.fda.gov/media/146305/download

> You are being offered the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine to prevent Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by SARS-CoV-2. This Fact Sheet contains information to help you understand the risks and benefits of receiving the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine, which you may receive because there is currently a pandemic of COVID-19.

The real question should be, why do you refuse to even just acknowledge basic facts right from the official EUAs? They are for prevention, not for lessening symptoms, and they simply are not preventing COVID-19 with Omicron.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by rsfern on Saturday January 22, 2022 @08:08PM (#30042633)
COVID-19 isn’t the same as a positive SARS-CoV—2 test. This is what they measured, from the caption of table 10 in the pfizer fact sheet you linked:

> Note: Confirmed cases were determined by Reverse Transcription-Polymerase Chain Reaction (RT-PCR) and at least 1 symptom consistent with COVID-19 (symptoms included: fever; new or increased cough; new or increased shortness of breath; chills; new or increased muscle pain; new loss of taste or smell; sore throat; diarrhea; vomiting)

That’s kind of squishy, but I think it’s a clear distinction.

I agree that the effectiveness against symptomatic Covid is lower with omicron, but omicron also evades immunity from prior infection as well.

Re:Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron... by encryptluks2 on Monday January 24, 2022 @12:16AM (#30053973)
That being said, the vaccines are not effectively preventing COVID-19 in vaxxed individuals with Omicron.