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Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by distrill on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:25PM (#29997798)
Literally everything is a partisan issue including the voting ID. The general argument against it is that proposed valid IDs are not free to obtain, and this would equate to a voting tax which is forbidden in the constitution.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by moises_silva on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:34PM (#29997955)
Make the ids free? I've been out of Mexico for >10yrs but when I became 18 I easily got my voting id in Mexico, free of charge.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by rascul on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @05:31PM (#30001331)
> Make the ids free?

Voter ID laws are all over the place. Very wide deviations from one state to the next, and every state has different ideas about what counts as an acceptable form of identification (they don't always have to be government issued photo identification cards). Of the states that require ID for voting, the following also provide a method to get a free ID to use for voting (although it's possible I missed one or two):

Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Wisconsin.

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by vkou on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:03PM (#29998408)
> Make the ids free?

That would be the 'logical' solution, but the party that wants voter ID is not trying to do something logical.

It wants to prevent people who don't currently have it from voting. So they demand ID, without making it possible/easier to get. (And when they do make it possible/easier to get, its only in their political strongholds - or they explicitly disqualify particular kinds of state-issued ID from being used to vote.)

Selective disenfranchisement is the whole point of the policy, not an unfortunate, unforeseen, unpredictable side effect. If you'd like to learn more about the history of this, the Civil War, Reconstruction, and Jim Crow are a good primer on the motivations behind it. Those motivations haven't gone anywhere, because the cultural struggle in question has never actually been resolved.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by josephh on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:17PM (#30000273)
> So they demand ID, without making it possible/easier to get.

Great, have congress legislate laws to make it easier/free to obtain passports. Instead of requiring folks to travel to DMV/Post office/etc., why not have federal public servants visit them door-to-door and assist in issuing it? We do it for census, so what's preventing them from doing it for passports?

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by mrguyorama on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @05:00PM (#30000892)
Charitably, the democrats don't care to take any action because there's never been evidence that voter fraud is an actual issue. It happens, in minuscule amounts, in most elections and is statistically meaningless. Most cases of voting fraud in the US are mistakes, because sometimes people don't realize when they've lost the right to vote, or didn't know they were taken off the voter rolls due to inactivity, or being incorrectly listed as dead or similar.

How much are we willing to spend on non-issues?

This is not my opinion however, as I think the US could do with a guaranteed, everyone has it, national ID card. Republicans however definitely don't want that, as it could be evidence that a government can actually do something right, and that's anathema to them, and also because a not-small group of evangelicals think that a government issued ID is a sign of the devil or something.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by dahfizz on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:25PM (#29998696)
> but the party that wants voter ID is not trying to do something logical.

If the opposing party wanted to be logical, they would just make IDs free and easy. Especially while they are running the government.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by jensensbutton on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:46PM (#30000687)
Note that voter ID laws are being passed at the _state_ level. Doing what you say above is fine, but getting states to recognize those IDs is not. This is not some trivial problem in America (like it may be in other countries).
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by vkou on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:39PM (#29999750)
1. They don't really get to run the government in the states where this is an issue.

2. Once in a blue moon, they do. But anything they build to enable this requires constant funding and maintenance. Their opponents either dismantle it when they take power, or retroactively disqualify existing IDs from being eligible for voting.

It's not, and has never been about IDs. It's about disenfranchisement.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by dahfizz on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:28PM (#30000413)
I agree that the current Republican approach is about disenfranchisement.

However, voter ID itself is a completely reasonable thing. This issue will never go away. The most logical thing for Democrats to do is to enact voter ID the right way so as to remove this as a tool from the Republicans' arsenal.

"Republicans may implement voter ID improperly, so we must never ever verify that the people casting votes are doing so legally" is an insane position, honestly.

An obvious first step would be to make getting a passport easier and free, though I am not sure if the federal government can compel states to accept a passport as identification.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by vkou on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @08:03PM (#30002862)
> "Republicans may implement voter ID improperly, so we must never ever verify that the people casting votes are doing so legally" is an insane position, honestly.

We already verify this, we just don't do it with the particular methods that they demand (and why they reject state-issued IDs that aren't used by their preferred demographics.)

Which is, of course, a game of goal-post shifting, that is impossible to win.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by pessimizer on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:37PM (#29998849)
> they demand ID, without making it possible/easier to get

Wouldn't this be the responsibility of the government in power, and not require any participation from the opposition?

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by Volundr on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:01PM (#30000053)
A nationally required ID is constitutionally questionable, meaning this would need handled at the State level. It would require involvement from all parties.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by post_from_work on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:13PM (#30003497)
The Federal government should set standards for features that need to be present on a State/Territory ID card "in order to facilitate interstate commerce". Then offer to subsidize production/distribution programs run by the States, for any State with a compliant ID program. Even better if we fused all of this with FICAM somehow. (https://www.idmanagement.gov/ )

The DoD has had ID card production figured out for years. All it takes is a work station (for checking your entry in a database and confirming the data that goes onto the card), a specialized printer, and a few other peripherals (camera, fingerprint scanner, keypad). I can walk into a DoD ID card center and walk out with a new card in 15 minutes. You could easily stuff several of these workstations into the back of a van, and then drive around to neighborhoods, bringing ID services to the disadvantaged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Access_Card

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by distrill on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:09PM (#29999297)
yep, that would solve this problem entirely
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by systemvoltage on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:30PM (#29997879)
Definitely a partisan issue, but if we look through the fog - why not find the root cause of this argument and make IDs free? It can be done by the states. We can send COVID tests to every American. I am sure issueing IDs (in control of States) would be possible.

This way, you can strike down the arguments about the entire Democracy hinging on fake voting and "lost the election" BS. Give Republicans what they want. I don't see any issue with it.

Also Democrats need to calm down and realize that it is not that unreasonable to ask people for IDs to avoid duplicate voting. It is not anti-democratic and definitely not doing anything helpful by calling people that want IDs fascists. Election integrity should be so good that it shouldn't have gaping holes like not having a fricking ID.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by pstuart on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:48PM (#29998189)
Voting fraud and election fraud are distinctly different things; the former gets all the attention despite the latter being the real concern: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/B...

One of the 2 parties is more incentivized to discourage voting, and that's worthy of discussion.

I am strongly anti-partisan but am compelled to vote in alignment with what I consider to be the least-worst option.

It's beyond frustrating to try to discuss these issues without it becoming a tribal war, even here on HN where one would hope for a higher level of discourse.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by Aloha on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:36PM (#29997978)
Rational arguments get lost in the partisan noise. For what its worth, the federal government could make passports (or passport cards) free for every citizen, which would solve the ID requirement. It's something that can be done by presidential fiat even, no laws required, that doesnt solve the issue that the underlying document needed to get any ID cost money, but its a start.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by Karunamon on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:39PM (#29998035)
They are either completely or almost completely free to get in states already. The usual argument then swaps to how much of a pain in the ass it is to source ID documents and show up in person at the DMV or similar.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by Aloha on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:56PM (#29998260)
http://sharedprosperityphila.org/documents/Revised-ID-Waiver...

While this is from 2015, this does not appear to be true.

Those who do have a free ID, require a time consuming waiver process.

Free needs to mean free, "not fill out this stack of paperwork and we'll send it off to the state capitol and see if it'll get approved"

Means testing is expensive and time consuming.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by Bhilai on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:00PM (#29998336)
I moved to a new state last year and to get an ID/DL the first available appointment was 90 days away. The amount of documentation required for the said ID was also less than whats needed for a US passport. Even after an appointment for a specific time, I waited 1.5 hours in the line for my turn. The fee was nominal (for me, $25.) But I can totally see how it can be hard for some people to go through the whole process.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by simplestats on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:36PM (#29998838)
I don't know that the US is especially worse than other countries when it comes to time and paperwork needed to receive govt services. I have waited in long lines all over the world.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by rootusrootus on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:43PM (#30000627)
This isn't for government services, this is for voting. The kind of people that are prime targets for disenfranchisement are exactly the same people who can least afford to spend a long time in line to vote. And they won't, because the relative value of that vote to them is pretty low, but in aggregate pretty high to the folks who'd like to disenfranchise them to win elections.
Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by Volundr on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:05PM (#30000117)
I don't believe that they are free in most states. $25 is a lot for some people. Three hours to take the bus to the DMV, wait in line, and take the bus home is both a reality and time they don't have for some people.

Until the voter ID proposals address these issues, they aren't "securing our elections", they are putting arbitrary barriers in place of American's inalienable right to vote. Many of us will never support disenfranchising anyone.

Re:IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access by tastyfreeze on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @05:25PM (#30001233)
33 States offer ID card fee waivers. There are 10 States that don't offer waivers but also require photo ID to vote.