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Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by not2b on Monday January 17, 2022 @07:52PM (#29973530)
There are two separate questions:

Does an extra booster prevent infection?

Does an extra booster reduce hospitalizations and deaths?

Seems this study only addressed the first question.

But instead of giving a fourth shot based on the OG Covid, seems an updated version based on omicron, delta, and any new variants of concern would be a better idea.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by top_post on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:01PM (#29973590)
I can't for the life of me understand why your last statement isn't what the world is driving for at the moment. mRNA vaccines are easily(-ish) updated, so punch out an Omicron specific dose and get on with the regular single/dual (if needed) regime.

It seems strange we'd opt for 3-4-5 shots given the benefit of mRNA was its ease of creation and modification.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by danhor on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:09PM (#29973653)
Biontech (and probably all other vaccine manufacturers) are working on it and expect to have it available in march: https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-det...

The omicron surge is happening now so health authorities are looking at solutions and a third shot worked great, so a fourth one is an obvious (short term) solution. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by usrusr on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:57PM (#29974026)
But the fourth dose did work, just not significantly better than the third. So for people who might have had their third too long in the past to still be confident about their imminent encounter with omicron, it is exactly the obvious short term solution you describe.
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by ImaCake on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:08PM (#29973637)
I think they are making these strain specific boosters. But it seems “they”* want to keep it quiet until they are ready to release them. My first through on this is that there is over-supply of the OG vaccine and it takes time to switch production and the booster story is designed to give some hope and confidence to the masses (which is good I think). There is also some paperwork involved which takes time, but as we saw with the OG vaccines that can be done pretty damn fast.

Best guess would be the strain specific boosters will come out of nowhere and suddenly saturate news coverage. But don’t quote me on that.

* presumably the pharma companies and national governments funding them. So a conspiracy, but not a QANON conspiracy.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by culturestate on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:22PM (#29973750)
> I think they are making these strain specific boosters. But it seems “they” want to keep it quiet until they are ready to release them.

There's nothing quiet about it - Moderna has already publicly announced[1] that they're nearly ready to take their Omicron booster to clinical trials.

1. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by ImaCake on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @03:50AM (#29976672)
Oh, maybe it is context specific then. No one I know in Australia is really talking about variant vaccines yet so maybe our media is being a bit quiet about it. Late March is a long time away considering we are dealing with peak COVID now.
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by GekkePrutser on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:20PM (#29973732)
Over-supply? A lot of third world countries would be happy to take it. We're still far from offering the entire world even their first shot
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by bagacrap on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @10:17AM (#29980394)
yes but these are for-profit companies and the developing world can't pay for those doses so what's the point to Pfizer?

That's a cynical take, but tbf don't the vaccines require logistical infrastructure that those parts of the world don't have? Other vaccines like j&j are perhaps more appropriate for that reason.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by dnadler on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:07PM (#29973631)
They are working on Omicron-specific vaccines. Here's an article about Pfizer, not sure about anyone else, though.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-omicron-va...

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by ummonk on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:16PM (#29973696)
Given what happened with delta, it seems likely that by the time a variant-specific booster is ready (i.e. gone through safety trials and bureaucratic approval and have manufacturing lines switched over), the variant will already have come and gone.
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by lamontcg on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @02:10AM (#29976061)
It should be pretty clear at this point that we're not going to vaccinate our way out of transmission.

I doubt there's a lot of utility to boosting a 4th time with anything unless you're immunocompromised in some way.

And by the time we start vaccinating for Omicron it'll likely be too late and we'll be onto the next variant which the Omicron booster will only partially cross react with.

But the vaccines have largely done their job, the boosted mature T-cell response is what is going to be saving lives and keeping people out of the hospitals. And the virus probably can't mutate enough to ever escape from T-cells.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by loyukfai on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:07PM (#29973627)
Both Pfizer and Moderna, at the minimum, have been developing, or already developed, a version of COVID vaccine targeting Omicron.
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by CyberDildonics on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:11PM (#29973660)
A third shot showed large antibody increases. I haven't seen a fourth shot being suggested. Here it was being studied. Omicron specific vaccines are being worked on and expected to arrive in a few months.
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by nradov on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:31PM (#29973824)
Antibody levels are transient and not very important. What matters over the long term is cellular immunity. We're just chasing our tails by focusing on antibody levels.

https://youtu.be/GklHGYY8vN8

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by RhysU on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:56PM (#29974023)
> Does an extra booster reduce hospitalizations and deaths?

A meta question: how do these studies control for the fact that people who care enough to get a booster are more likely to care proactively about their health?

Lots of good outcomes correlate with caring.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by rsfern on Monday January 17, 2022 @09:08PM (#29974123)
Usually they used randomized controlled trials for this sort of thing, which in a well designed study will account for this sort of bias

Whether the population in the trial generalized to the population at large is a bit different question and I think is where the bias you’re highlighting could come into part

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by h2hq on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @10:40AM (#29980749)
It cannot be randomized for a vaccine trial since the participants are all people who want to be vaccinated.
Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by landemva on Monday January 17, 2022 @09:25PM (#29974248)
'... people who care enough to get a booster are more likely to care proactively about their health'

Are there studies to show people who care about health get boosters? My neighbors are hyper healthy and undosed. I am undosed and I exercise regularly.

I generally see many people who sat on couch for two years put on considerable weight. Getting dosed while eating ourselves into 2x pants sizes doesn't seem to be good for health, as it increases the co-morbidity counter.

Re:Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective by scottwd9 on Monday January 17, 2022 @09:15PM (#29974172)
There's no need for a variant-specific booster. The vaccines are still very effective at preventing severe disease with Omicron. Just like they were with Delta.