News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by murphyslab on Friday January 14, 2022 @04:12PM (#29940513)
A large part of this blog post's ridiculous assertion lies either on ignorance or on the false assumption that horizontal gene transfer [0] does not exist in Nature:

> It’s easy enough to change a single nucleotide (a single point mutation or SNP) or even insert or delete nucleotides (less common) but to insert 20 or 30 nucleotides with a code that works? Nope, that has to come from another virus or else it’s been done in a lab.

The original preprint which noted similarity of the HIV-1 sequences and those in the COVID spike protein, and on which this blog author's claims rest, was voluntarily withdrawn by its authors. [1]

Moreover, the assertions of uniqueness have been thoroughly addressed in the published article, "HIV-1 did not contribute to the 2019-nCoV genome" [2] :

> For any virus to obtain additional insert sequences from other organisms, it requires that it has direct interactions with other organisms, most likely through homologous or non-homologous recombination. [...] On the contrary, these motifs are widely present in various mammalian cells and so it will be more likely for bat CoV viruses to gain those motifs from the genomes of their infected cells if recombination indeed occurs.

That rebuttal article clearly suggests several feasible sources of the gene in Nature. That surely is more plausible than suggesting that Moderna or some other group nefariously created the COVID genome _in vitro_ before unleashing it upon humanity.

I deeply enjoy Hacker News for its ability to surface different ideas and sources of information that I would otherwise never find, but this article is simply ridiculous.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

[1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v2

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7033698/

Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by dekhn on Friday January 14, 2022 @04:27PM (#29940676)
The really ridiculous thing is that we're expected to "explain it like I'm 5" to smart computer hackers who don't know biology and constantly try to poke holes in mainstream science without taking the time to understand the complexity and subtlety in that field.
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by Comevius on Friday January 14, 2022 @06:20PM (#29941863)
As a computer science guy I did my own ELI5, found out how insertion sequences work, found the paper about HIV-1 and 2019-nCov, but it is true, it takes time to understand.

Even without spending time my heuristics is that I find biases in the claim and find out how referenced it is. This one had plenty red flags, including dismissing the RaTG13 results claiming that they were just put into the database after people started questioning, the adversarial tone, presumptions and so on. Conspiracy theorists use recognizable heuristics, but their motivation is to seek attention, for which there is large competition. They want to be relevant, but who doesn't. Conspiracy theorists are not really into publishing a paper either, a blog post, video or tweet is all you get, it's not about the truth and it is easier to avoid being found out this way, though social media these days have fact checkers, so they have to fly under the radar or keep to the social circles that are not bothered by fact checkers.

Knowing about biases and how to recognize them is a vital skill, should be taught in schools. Everyone needs a working bullshit meter.

Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by hodwik3 on Friday January 14, 2022 @08:54PM (#29942839)
> dismissing the RaTG13 results claiming that they were just put into the database after people started questioning

To be fair, that sequence came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology

Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by jesse_a_b on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @09:46PM (#29989293)
I just checked, and this sequence is not even complete in the RaTG13 genome. Only 7 nucleotide match.

It is in the Moderna 2015 patent. 19 nucleotide match.

Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by feoren on Friday January 14, 2022 @04:42PM (#29940835)
I'm not really sure who you're talking about here. Who is expecting you to explain things to them simply? Informative comments are always appreciated, but I'm not sure why you're taking this as some personal obligation. Who is poking holes in mainstream science? I don't really see that happening in these comments.
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by dekhn on Friday January 14, 2022 @04:51PM (#29940950)
I follow a lot of threads on the site, especially ones that appear to be COVID disinformation. And I see a lot of hackers asking "well, I read this <disinformation> and it made sense to me. Can you explain why it's not true?"

This is pretty common. The reason I take it as obligation is that if there aren't people fighting disinformationn, the disinformation will win, because it tends to be full of simple, seductive, but. wrong ideas that naive people fall for.

Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by Jimmc414 on Friday January 14, 2022 @05:28PM (#29941381)
Disinformation is defined as "false information intended to mislead". Do you think that is the intention of this author?
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by dekhn on Friday January 14, 2022 @05:33PM (#29941433)
Well, it's possible the author believes what they wrote in which case it would be "false information believed to be true intended to teach" but I'm pretty sure this is active misinformation.

I'm not sure which particular thing public health people said that you're complaining about in the last part of the section- but I don't really think that public health leaders who communicate things which aren't 100% correct are dissemination disinformation. That's sort of a pedantic and uninteresting argument to have about the philosophical nature of information.

Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by Jimmc414 on Friday January 14, 2022 @05:55PM (#29941644)
Well, embedded within the term disinformation is an accusation, so thank you for clarifying.
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by shataraxia on Thursday January 20, 2022 @12:21AM (#30005025)
it may be pedantic, but it's good to know that "disinformation" denotes intent & "misinformation" appears to be the word you're looking for
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by UncleMeat on Saturday January 15, 2022 @11:30AM (#29947657)
This appears to be a disease among technical people. The number of people who work in something like software and have decided that they can effectively evaluate research in a completely different field is frightening.
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by netizen-936824 on Friday January 14, 2022 @04:35PM (#29940760)
I feel the same way when articles pop up about some drug. Sometimes it feels like I'm beating my head against a wall.
Re:Ctcctcggcgggcacgtag is unique to both SARS-CoV-2 and Mode... by jesse_a_b on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @09:41PM (#29989245)
1 - You haven't even checked the sequences, HIV doesn't have this exact sequence. The 2015 moderna patent does.