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Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by starwind on Thursday January 13, 2022 @12:15PM (#29923452)
There shouldn't be a divide between skilled trades and bachelor's degrees. If I could add a creative writing minor to math degree, why was it impossible for me to add an aircraft maintenance certification through my school?
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by lapsedacademic on Thursday January 13, 2022 @12:20PM (#29923530)
> why was it impossible for me to add an aircraft maintenance certification through my school?

Because schools can't bullshit maintenance certification curricula and aren't willing to pay qualified faculty.

See also: the alarming number of schools where CS and Data Science courses are still taught by mathematics faulty (because they can't find CS faculty who are willing to work for $70K).

This model of "pay unqualified people to teach a good enough version of the course and hope our consumers don't notice they're being shafted" only works in unregulated fields. Most trades are not unregulated.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by yardie on Thursday January 13, 2022 @02:26PM (#29925480)
For most schools CS is literally in the Math Department. And traditional CS is a lot more math than the contemporary CS, which should really be called SWE.

My alma mater finally merged CS and SWE, then moved the new CS/SWE degree to Engineering because engineering basically prints money.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by xyzzyz on Thursday January 13, 2022 @01:35PM (#29924681)
> Because schools can't bullshit maintenance certification curricula and aren't willing to pay qualified faculty.

Yeah, the crucial thing that most people miss in these discussion is that most schools don’t actually effectively teach what they claim to be teaching. Teachers and students go through the motions, but the students don’t actually end up learning much of anything, and the teachers who nevertheless give them passing grade face no consequence. If a typical high school started offering aircraft maintenance certification, instead of increasing the graduates value on job market, it would simply make the certification to be held as worthless.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by sokoloff on Thursday January 13, 2022 @12:29PM (#29923695)
Because the AMT course is typically 24 months long by itself (for a combined airframe and powerplant certificate)? It’s 30 months of relevant, supervised maintenance work experience or a qualified AMT school program, which are often 24 months full-time.

That’s far more time than a typical creative writing minor.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by pbhjpbhj on Thursday January 13, 2022 @12:47PM (#29923948)
You've not really addressed the spirit of the question, they're not asking about aircraft maintenance really, they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed?

I guess in the UK you'd try for an apprenticeship with day release to college for the academic elements (or take a job in a technical field and do an Open University or other distance learning course for the academic side?).

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by sokoloff on Thursday January 13, 2022 @12:51PM (#29924041)
I tried to and answered the way I did because I think a lot of people vastly underestimate the time and effort required to get certified for a trade. “Why can’t I just add an MD to my engineering degree?” seems like a ridiculous question, but “Why can’t I add a plumber’s or electrician’s or AMT license/certificate to my degree?” is treated as “well, that’s a good question; you ought to be able to!”

(They specifically asked about a certification not just “some coursework”.)

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by ClumsyPilot on Thursday January 13, 2022 @01:48PM (#29924880)
I don't think this is right, basic domestic electrician training in UK takes 2 months. Many trades don't have a lisence, i.e. bike mechanic.

I think the problem is in the culture of these institutions, they are not prepared for getting iut of a classroon and getting their hand dirty.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday January 13, 2022 @01:54PM (#29924978)
Certification time varies greatly.

A pretty good set of AWS welding certs can be done in 6wk of night classes.

You can't get paid money to install a toilet in some states until you've started as the jobsite bitch, worked your way up and payed years of your life into the system to get in a position to even be eligible to take the test.

The latter tends to only happen after regulatory capture.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by lapsedacademic on Thursday January 13, 2022 @12:49PM (#29923986)
they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed?

I think they did answer this: it's because hands-on practical/technical skills are hard to learn and people who can teach them are generally expensive.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by ghaff on Thursday January 13, 2022 @01:58PM (#29925039)
I'd add that while a full certification is quite hard to learn and takes a lot of time, schools absolutely have hands on courses. I have a mechanical engineering degree and two of my courses were very hands on with machine shop and building something for a contest.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by ClumsyPilot on Thursday January 13, 2022 @01:44PM (#29924823)
Education is also expensive, arguably what the hell are we paying for then?
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by shinjitsu on Thursday January 13, 2022 @09:13PM (#29929830)
Unfortunately a lot of this is because many faculty of 'liberal arts' colleges/universities believe "we are here to give an education and open student's minds and broaden their horizons" but even more often I have heard "liberal arts are not intended to be job training institutions"

so it is a much easier sell a creative writing major in a faculty senate or something similar than Aircraft Maintenance. And when you do get Aircraft Maintenance it usually gets tucked into the engineering or business schools in order to survive.

also: https://thedispatch.com/p/we-are-less-educated-than-we-think