If you're afraid of the virus, get vaccinated yourself. That's literally the most you can do.

If you're still afraid of the virus, you should know that vaccinating people (even forcefully) won't stop transmission. The virus is endemic. The only thing that can change between now and "back to normal" future is, your mind.

How lucky you are not having to worry about co-morbidity.

I'm sick and tired of people generalizing their own conditions to the entire population. You are not like everyone else. Stop telling other people they don't need to worry.

I'm sick and tired of doom larpers stealing the youth and life experiences of children and teenagers over this nothingness.

If _you_ have comorbidities _you_ need to protect yourself.

Oh, totally.

One of the ways I would personally prefer it done is not needing to send kids to super spreader spaces for no reason, since there is no learning happening as documented by the student in the reddit post, causing them to bring the virus home to their parents / grandparents suffering from co-morbidity or immune system issues.

I'm not afraid. I am triple-vaxxed not for myself but out of solidarity for those around me. I am simply at the end of my patience with people going to protests clogging my city and creating politicians using the greenpass and constant checks and testing to create a divide.

mandatory vaccination will get rid of surveillance solutions like the Greenpass while also protecting everyone. there can still be an exemption if a physician approves that a person can not be vaccinated for some strange reason.

that's the only way to go back to normal, the rest is silly greenpass rules or noisy discussions about "shall we pay un-vaccinated people less?", etc ...

Huh? You're leaving out some massive yet important parts of your argument here. It is a complete non-sequitur to go from you, personally, being perfectly safe and therefore mandatory vaccination is necessary to protect everyone.

Fact is that mandatory vaccination doesn't seem to do much to change the risk to society at large. Coronavirus is tearing through fully-vaccinated Australia at a rate which suggests vaccines do literally nothing to stop the spread. Since the vaccines don't protect bystanders, all the surveillance and mandating of medical treatments should be scrapped immediately.

We are in territory where if someone isn't vaccinated, they are bearing all the risk personally and that is acceptable.

I mostly agree. I think it is certain that vaccinations slow the spread somewhat; probable that they're stopping medical services from becoming overwhelmed; and almost certain that they will not eliminate covid from circulating.

You'll probably catch covid, whether vaccinated or not. Your elderly relatives will probably catch covid, whether you and they are vaccinated or not.

They'll probably catch it even if everyone on the planet become vaccinated tomorrow.

Vaccination is simply one tool to moderate the effect. It's wonderful that we have them, but having 20% of the population stay unvaccinated is not going to drastically affect the spread of the disease.

There are plenty of countries where the vaccination rate is too low to effectively prevent the healthcare system from being overrun. In Austria, we were in another lockdown due to this just a month ago, with a vaccination rate of about 70% at the time (IIRC). This is in a country with a relatively high number of unoccupied ICU beds, and we still peaked at a level just short of where doctors would have to triage patients (and well where the quality of care could be kept at its usual level due to i.e. fewer nurses and doctors per patient.)

So no, the unvaccinated aren't solely at risk personally, they could also prevent vaccinated people from getting treated at the standard of care that they would normally expect. I'm not okay with that, so mandatory vaccination with fines for non-compliance seems like the lesser evil to me.

> mandatory vaccination will get rid of surveillance solutions like the Greenpass while also protecting everyone.

It is unbelievably naive to think that after investing in any surveillance/control infrastructure that governments will relinquish that power willingly.

> mandatory vaccination will get rid of surveillance solutions like the Greenpass while also protecting everyone.

Would you not still need a vax-proof when vaccination is mandatory? How does it differ then to the greenpass? It would then be mandatory to be able to produce that proof. Failing to do so may result in fines or land you in jail.

How does that help with the greenpass situation you described?

> And what is more annoying is that the "greenpass" is actually (at least where I live in Europe) a way that allows cops to stop, frisk and harass anyone. It enables the busybodies to play "I aM an auThOrItY and will use my imaginary authority to exercise power over you ..."

> The "greenpass" assumes I am always carrying my phone. It gives me anxiety about my battery going flat.

Making it mandatory seems to only make this worse.

Got it, so you want to get people submitted into a procedure they don't want, while at the same time claiming you are "triple-vaxxed not for myself but out of solidarity for those around me". Why pretend you care about anyone? just say, hey I want everyone to do this so I feel safer.

> so you want to get people submitted into a procedure they don't want

yes. peoples freedom stop where other peoples health begins. co-morbidity can not be solved but getting people vaccinated can. even it means it's "against their will", even they shout "fOrCeD mediCaL prOceDuRe". I don't care if it hurts their fragile egos and means they have to tone down the individualism. Either have a doctors exemption, pay a fine, or go to jail (condition upon entry into prison is mandatory vaccination). Boom. Problem solved.

> just say, hey I want everyone to do this so I feel safer.

it's not about me but the people around me. some of them I've already lost. I'm healthy enough not to care. I eat well and have done sports all my life. I survived several tropical diseases. I also lived my life to the fullest. So idgaf. The only thing I care about is people around me getting hurt that I love (my family, my kids, my friends). And don't worry they're some deluded anti-vaxxers among them. They can only be helped by force at this stage.

Ahh got it. Are you going to round up the people and get them into jail? You are talking about a threat of force, can you back this up? Would you volunteer to knock doors in Middle of Nowhere, AL to catch the people not paying the fine? or are you expecting someone else to do that for you?

Honestly you just sound like a troll, and you were called out on your previous comments. You are talking about some caricature "AntIVaXeR" that you don't even know in real life. After reading your other comments I don't even believe your story, but idk, maybe you do are that dissociated from reality that you believe it.

How mandatory is mandatory though? Is it just gating everything with a vaccine passport, or strapping down people who don't want the vaccination and injecting them?

The real issue is once you decide to force people to do this, what else would you do? The slippery slope is a common argument that you'll need to defend against.

> How mandatory is mandatory though?

doctors exemption offers a way out. otherwise a hefty fine (unable to pay means prison time like it is done in Austria)

You need to relax.

There is no legitimate reason to force people to undergo any medical procedure.

I am very relaxed. We had mandatory vaccination against smallpox and measles, and it worked well. There weren't even any discussions. The doctor came to school, we formed a queue and each got their jab. Nobody whined or wrote home about it. And hopefully we'll do it again very soon whether anyone whines or not.

Legitimate reason number 1: based on your low effort reply, you’re unable to understand how not to pass on a highly communicable disease that causes misery, disruption, and death.

Don’t post that anymore.

How rude you are.

Far ruder to not get a vaccine that saves lives.

>It offers anti-vaxxers a road out of their self-radicalization. They are able to tone down their conspiracy and blame the government for having been "chipped", and so it's not like they "betrayed their cult" but they were forced to.

I think that yours (and most people's) idea of the typical "anti-vaxxer" is a convenient caricature packaged and served to you by mass media and memes, that you've never actually listened to a real live one of these "anti-vaxxers", what they think and feel.

Ohhhh... I have. As a matter of fact, he's going to go to Walgreen's today to get his first "DNA changing" jab because his Dollar General store manager salary won't keep up with the tests needed to maintain employment at his employer.

He's also the dude who will go outside and take random pictures of the sky so that people are aware of the contrails being used to control people's minds.

Chiming in with the rest. Most, maybe all, anti-vaxxers I've interacted with (friends, family, acquaintances) have provided reasons such as 1) the vaccine changes my dna, 2) micro-chips (by an Amazon SWE!), 3) the vaccine only affects people with weak will power (this one was new to me, though it was also laced with God-protects the worthy or something like that). Luckily most of these people eventually were persuaded or to some extent bullied into getting a vaccine. So no, I don't think most anti-vaxxers have well reasoned beliefs that they are holding strong to, though I'm sure some of those do exist.

You don't seem to spend much time on anti-vaxx forums. I don't either but the stories my sister share with me are quite telling.

Not to mention every news channel covid-related videos on youtube is swarmed with comments from a minority of anti-vaxxer, regardless of the country of origin, regardless of the political stance of the channel.

I'd say the evidence is against you.

> you've never actually listened to a real live one of these "anti-vaxxers"

don't think you know me but:

I lost my mother due to covid. she was an anti-vaxxer right until the last minute when she died just before Christmas. She was a vulnerable nutcase for years and easily gamed into any kind of MLM scheme.

I was forced to cut off one of my 2 best friends (of 40 years) because they could no longer be reasoned with. we ignored his alternative life-style and individualism because why wouldn't we. but it also put him into a risk-group of suckers that get brainwashed. the same guy now cut off relations to his mother who is battling cancer on the grounds that "she chose to be vaccinated".

These people are crazy, and it's their right to be crazy, but the cost of being crazy can not be exploited by media and politicians. That's why I am 100% for reducing their freedom and have them undergo a "forced medical procedure" (as they call it).

Cant you print the qr code and have it on paper. Your batter going flat wont matter. You can have multiple copies one in any jacket/car/bag you have.

Also, where in Europe are cops stopping you for vaccination on the street?

You can. I do and I know multiple people who have. You can also get it printed on a piece of plastic in many of the quicktest locations.

Austria has a "strong leader" again. Papers please:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/austria-covid-lockdown-polic...

It also has a higher cumulative death rate than Sweden, so all of this is virus-theater and authoritarianism.

yepp it's the former minister of interior and he has a strong authoritarian streak.

> Also, where in Europe are cops stopping you for vaccination on the street?

have seen it in Germany Austria and France. The worst is when you're also guilty of being a brown person, when you look poor, or belong to a specific group like the Roma.

The vaccines are very protective against severe disease, not "useless". Of course that is more important for people over 40 or 50 where severe disease is more common.

For younger people, they don't completely stop transmission, but it's very likely that they slow it down (preventing some infections, lessening the severity of others, etc).

> highly vaccinated area COVID-19 cases are sharply rising

omnicron's effect on healthcare would be a lot worse without majority of people being vaccinated. everyone is anti-vaxx but it's always shocking how many of them clowns are not anti-respirator or anti-ICU.

where is your proof of this statement. this is an assumption, not a fact.

This study[1] shows 70% effectiveness against hospitalization for the Pfizer vaccine (based on a two-dose regime; the level of protection would likely be significantly higher for boosted populations).

I'll leave it to you to do the math on what this would mean for the healthcare system if we take current daily infections and remove that effect.

[1]: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270

Vaccinated folk — while still being infectious — have milder forms of the disease. For the unvaccinated Omicron is not mild relative to the OG strain.

You are spreading health misinformation. Please stop it.

>> In any highly vaccinated area COVID-19 cases are sharply rising.

> You are spreading health misinformation. Please stop it.

Chile sees Covid surge despite vaccination success https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56731801

World's Most Vaccinated Nation Is Spooked by Covid Spike https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/business/economy/covid-se...

Vermont sees the biggest surge in COVID cases despite having the country's highest vaccination rate https://fortune.com/2021/08/12/vermont-covid-cases-vaccinati...

Iceland has been a vaccination success. Why is it seeing a coronavirus surge? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/iceland-covid-su...

99.7% of Waterford adults fully vaccinated against Covid-19 https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40704104.html

Waterford Now Has Highest Incidence of Covid in Ireland https://waterford-news.ie/2021/10/11/waterford-now-has-highe...

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

76% of September Covid-19 deaths are vax breakthroughs https://vermontdailychronicle.com/2021/09/30/76-of-september...

Covid cases hit records in South Korea and Singapore despite widespread vaccinations. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/world/covid-cases-hit-rec...

Virus surge hits New England despite high vaccination rates https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-pande...

Most vaccinated place on Earth told to cancel holiday plans amid 'exponential' rise in Covid cases https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/most-vaccin...

Portugal returns to COVID restrictions despite high jab rate https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-he...

COVID Cases Are Surging in the Five Most Vaccinated States https://www.newsweek.com/covid-cases-are-surging-five-most-v...

Coronavirus outbreak sidelines ship whose crew is fully immunized, Navy says https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/12/24/...

Belgian scientific base in Antarctica engulfed by Covid-19 despite strict measures https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium-all-news/199687/belgia...