Hey, you are not alone with BP and there is a really great BP discord server. We have real support groups running two times a day. I encourage everyone with BP to join it. https://discord.gg/rbipolar2

Anyone who reads this who also knows a community for Borderline people, I'd appreciate it! I'm one of the few Borderline people I know who sought out therapy (most actively reject it, choosing to believe the lies our mind tells us that our problems are the problems of others) and seeking a community of those so afflicted also in recovery.

That'd be really helpful. I hope there is one.

Great, I'll check it out.

thanks for sharing that

I have a question regarding crippling depression. When I hit the wall, I never got fully bed ridden, I was able to force myself out (also the fact that my heart couldn't operate well when horizontal gave me another reason). I had to mentally plan, calculate and monitor every move (moving one finger, grabbing a spoon) sluggishly. But at times my brain just ..shut. I would collapse on a table.. not due to fatigue or pain, not like fainting or narcolepsia, it was something else, like neurological surrendering because there was no notion of aim anymore. Has it happened to you that way ? or anyone else ? It's long gone but still I'm unsurprisingly curious.

Yes, I've experienced that while locked up in the psyche ward. My brain just shut down. I would stare at the food at the end of my fork for what seemed like 10's of minutes. I didn't care. I knew I was in a safe place so I just went with it. It feels like the biochemical equivalent of a dead battery. They gave me a drug cocktail (I don't know what) that restored me to normal function.

Part of my motivation of writing my original comment was because I realized that the author of the article made a mistake. I'm not blaming the author because I've made the same mistake and I've seen it made often. I never really thought about it much. The mistake is trying to explain depression in terms the non-depressed family could understand. He even used that common metaphor of being in a dark tunnel. Everyone can relate to being in a dark tunnel, right? That's the problem. Then they think of terms that they can relate to and are more tempted to blame the depressed person for not just "getting up" like they've done when they were in a dark tunnel.

It occurred to me without really being conscious of it that the correct way to describe depression is in terms they do not understand. That way they'd see depression correctly, as something really abnormal and serious. I wanted to show that the depressed person was incapable of thinking in any way helpful for others or themselves. I wanted them to see it like you might see a man sitting on the tracks when a train is approaching and not only refusing to move, but seeming disinterested in it and almost content to die. It's shocking but it's true. It's so far out of the normal band, unlike the dark tunnel. Family are not powerless and should get into action. Push that man off the track!

I wasn't even staring void, I actually folded on the table. Biochemical dead battery is close, because it's really snappy like an on/off switch, but in my case it was also above the somatic layer. The idea in my mind just before was that "there's no more path to follow, no more things in the list, sorry... closing".

I had something like that during my worst depressive episode. I just collapsed on the table during work because I couldn't make myself do anything, including sitting.

Thank you for sharing. That takes a lot of courage, and it is very helpful to hear a story like this with a positive outcome.

> helpful to hear a story like this with a positive outcome

That's why I shared, because it's important for family and sufferers know that people do recover. I don't share under my real name, although I would like to, because some people are really frightened and prejudiced against bipolar people. Maybe from a bad experience. Not all bipolars get psychotic and think they're Jesus who can fly.

> Not all bipolars get psychotic and think they're Jesus who can fly.

Every once in a while a local paper somewhere runs an article about someone running down the street naked claiming they were Jesus. Dollars to doughnuts it's an undiagnosed bipolar patient having a psychotic episode. The flying is probably from Reefer Madness, I believe, but you were undoubtedly speaking in hyperbole to sarcastically feign sympathy for some idiot for irrationally fearing a bipolar patient like they were equivalent to the absurdly exaggerated pot-crazed teenager diving through a window to their death because they were so stoned they believed they were a chicken and could fly.

I just remembered an Onion post from a long ago that speaks to what I'm saying. People can and should do something even if the depressed person says to go away and leave them alone. Nobody wants to be rude or be a bother, but sometimes it's an emergency situation and people should give themselves permission to act.

Parents Of Suicide Victim Saw It Coming A Mile Away

https://www.theonion.com/parents-of-suicide-victim-saw-it-co...

How do you manage the side-effects (especially weight gain) from quatiepine? My best wishes to you.

I’m on quetiapine, but don’t have weight gain.

I do have issues with my balance and motor control. If I get dehydrated, my blood sugar gets low, or I get too tired, I can lose the ability to drive. Not drive safely. Drive at all.

As a precaution, I always have extra food, water, and medication with me all the time. I plan trips so I don’t get into problems. And I have friends who will drive me home. Which I did have one do early in my treatment because I didn’t know all this yet.

My psychiatrist has me on additional medication twice a day to help with both motor control and muscle pain. Works pretty well.

I’ve learned that feeling one strand of muscle being tight in my arms or chest is a warning I’m getting dehydrated. At that point, I have about half an hour before I’ll start having problems.

Note: If you’re worried about my ability to drive. It’s not an issue. The symptoms are very obvious to me and it about an hour to get that bad. Anyone who is diabetic deals with the same kind of issues.

I think you'll be alright because you are very aware of your condition. That's really how I am too. I'm always checking in with myself like that song in The Big Lebowski - "The condition of my condition is good." There's aways Uber.

After I wrote my comment I thought of something weird. California sent me a tax bill every month. Every month I would ignore it and every month it would go up due to fines. Finally California siezed my bank account and cleaned it out, all $13,000, leaving me destitute. What I thought was weird was my reaction. I didn't care. I was watching it happen like watching a fly walk across the cieling - with complete indifference. So here's something else family can do - ask to see the bills.

I'm lucky I only need a low dose (50 mg) but you're right, the weight gain is a drag. At least I have the energy now to excercise, so I have normal problems, thank god.

You must be bp2 and take it more for sedation because the anti psychotic effect only manifests on higher doses.

I've been diagnosed both bp1 and bp2 by different doctors. You're right, I use it mostly for sleep. Being able to sleep has been a godsend.

Did you always know it was bipolar depression? If not, what eventually made you realize it was bipolar depression and not major depression?

I started having my suspicions after I read what I consider the best book about the bipolar experience called "The Loony Bin Trip" by the late Kate Millet. She got more manic than I but eventually I got more depressed than she. Interviews with psychiatrists are where it was diagnosed. It's helpful before those interviews to think back about periods of childhood when you felt really disconnected and out of it and then the times you had long periods of a really good mood. Then relay those experiences to the pdoc honestly and let them tell you what they think. It's important not to tell them what you think they want to hear or bend the truth so you get a "trendy" diagnosis. Even if you think you're story is boring and you feel you have to punch it up, resist that urge. Just tell them like it is and they might surprise you with a correct diagnosis that you never heard of or never expected. You can't get treated right until you get honest, and this includes about drug and alcohol consumption.

Not op, but I lived with a bipolar patient and had a relative who was schizoaffective, bipolar subtype. It's pretty common for bipolar patients to be misdiagnosed as having depression because mania or hypomania "feels good" and they don't seek treatment until they crash into a depressive episode. Or sometimes the mania just emerges later in life, as the course of the illness can vary and develop over the years, so maybe in the earlier phase it is more mistakable for unipolar depression. Lastly, antidepressants can trigger a manic episode in bipolar patients.

I see a lot of people talking about their bipolar diagnosis that has no or very little manic component. Why call it bipolar then? It's just cyclical major depression.

Because it's not just cyclical major depression (and there's no "just" to major depression either, but that's another rant). The diagnostic criteria for bipolar is that you have had at least one extended episode of mania or hypomania alongside a depressive episode, so you're not going to have the diagnosis unless you've been manic or hypomanic at some point. Although it may not be a major or dominant part of someone's presentation, mania or hypomania is nevertheless there and it effects what treatments are appropriate. Certain SSRI's may trigger off hypomania or mania in a bipolar patient, or simply be utterly ineffective, whereas in someone with cyclical major depression their response would be different. I'm bipolar II and spend roughly 1/4 to 1/3rd of my life meeting the criteria for major depression but very rarely have hypomanic episodes, and this was the case even before I was on lithium. Indeed I've gone for years in between major hypomanic episodes. But hoo boy! When they hit there is no mistaking them.

The other thing is that unlike with depression where you have to squint really hard to see much of an effect from most treatments, there are reasonably effective treatments for mania and hypomania, including good old lithium. So if you're being treated, while you might still suffer from regular bouts of depression, you'll likely have much reduced or even eliminated hypomanic or manic symptoms. So it's not unusual to see manic depressives who are treated showing very few manic symptoms for years on end.

It seems very dangerous to diagnose as such. Perhaps someone gets depressed every three months near end of quarter when their hours get cut?

Once someone demonstrably has issues with mania, yes, sure, I understand wanting to prevent it, but in a lot of cases I see very little separation from actual mania and "I felt good one day" (which if someone were depressed may feel very weird).

There's also strong arguments that one or two manic or hypomanic episodes are not enough evidence for a bipolar diagnosis.

> Perhaps someone gets depressed every three months near end of quarter when their hours get cut?

As someone who's been clinically depressed, your examples seem contrived to me. Are they based on any specific evidence, and if so, would you please share with the group?

Just a small thing, I believe you don't need a depressive episode for a bipolar I diagnosis. For bipolar 2 I think yes.

There are different forms of Bipolar the most publicly known form is BP1 with Psychosis or what people call the manic component. People with BP2 (they never get really manic or get psychosis) have episodes that are called Hypomania which are debilitating for some even more than manic episodes. Here is a nice chart at how these hypomania episodes feel. https://imgur.com/a/9d0MrnD

I find it quite hard to not feel like I've lived or felt many of the symptoms on the second column.

Yet, when I searched for help the diagnosis seemed rushed and I decided not to take lithium. Years later after much therapy a new psi prescribed me an SSRI. It did wonders to my anxiety and subsided the thoughts of taking my life. But the main motivational problems persist.

Now I'm convinced to stop taking them because they make me kinda numb. It's like I miss crying or taking some issues as serious and important.

Then a question arises: just from taking SSRIs these two years and not going nuts, does that prove I'm not bipolar?

You don't have to go nuts to be bipolar. If you are not going manic I would look to see if you had self destructive tendencies in your past like quitting a job on a whim, getting erratic with your friends over nothing etc. If you have them combined with some of the other symptoms of the chart I would speak with a pdoc. Here is a great video describing the differences https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM7vf5HJxaQ

No, SSRI work well in a number of BP2 cases.

Apparently yours do not quite work well enough, since you seem to be describing aboulia, which is a depression symptom.

The diagnoses is most of the time not that easy. I was diagnosed really early with 16 after a suicide attempt with 13. I was diagnosed with MDD and ADHD at the time and the SSRI and amphetamines stimmed me right into my first manic episode with psychosis. If you are BP 1 and have psychosis while in a manic episode the diagnosis comes pretty fast. If you are BP 2 the diagnosis can be a lot harder because most of the time when people come out of a depressive episode they just feel "normal" before spiraling and getting erratic when in hypomania.

One of the differentials is that SSRIs generally send you into a manic or even psychotic state rather than a “baseline”.

If this is how little understanding and empathy you have for mental illness, why not just keep out of discussions on the topic altogether? You’d make the world a marginally less bad place, if you did.

Ah yes, the classic “if you’re depressed, stop being depressed!” comment. Very helpful.

Your comment has inspired me: my brother broke his leg, and just now I texted him to stop being so fragile and just go out for a run. That ought to fix it!