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Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by dv_dt on Friday December 31, 2021 @02:19PM (#29751477)
Avoiding nuclear will save you money in the long run though
Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by wildmanxx on Friday December 31, 2021 @02:23PM (#29751528)
Sad that this is downvoted. The hidden cost of nuclear is one of the biggest issue the tech-affine crowds tend to ignore and not want to hear about. You may not pay it on your utility bill, but society and later generations will pay it.
Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by Tenoke on Friday December 31, 2021 @02:54PM (#29751895)
Except Germany has largely been replacing it with coal (and gas) which has costs paid in lives today rather than in unlikely future hypotheticals.
Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by Zigurd on Friday December 31, 2021 @02:52PM (#29751876)
Almost every nation with nuclear power has underestimated decommissioning costs. Those costs will go on long after the lifespan of the power plant.
Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by euler2100 on Friday December 31, 2021 @02:58PM (#29751932)
Care to explain how exactly? I'm genuinely curious.
Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by belorn on Friday December 31, 2021 @04:36PM (#29752763)
Energy subsidies in the EU says the opposit: https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/default/files/annex_to_the...

Countries that need a lot of reserve energy is paying a lot of subsidies to fossil fuels. Year in, year out. First you need to pay them in order to keep the plants on standby when renewables are plenty, and then you need to pay them again when demand exceeds the productions of renewables. The outcome is very large and steady stream of money going into the pockets of those who invest into fossil fuel.

Nuclear would need a lot in order to catch up to the same level of subsidies.

Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by ZeroGravitas on Friday December 31, 2021 @05:02PM (#29752982)
Your document's graph shows that France, and a bunch of other countries with nuclear, are subsidizing fossil fuels more than Germany.

That seems to be proving the oppposite of your point.

It's also interesting that France has generic "electricity" subsidies that are bigger than their "nuclear" subsidies and yet 70% of their electricity is nuclear.

Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by belorn on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:29PM (#29754079)
The generic "electricity" subsidies in France seems similar to other countries, so my read is that they are things like transmission lines and other costs that is independent of the technology that generated the power.

Could you explain the logic behind that idea that France subsidizes to fossil fuel is proof that nuclear is expensive? To me it is proof that the fossil fuel industry will extract its cut as long as the grid is dependent on it.

Also, a technical details. In actually billions, France is not subsidizing fossil fuels more than Germany. France total subsidize is about half of Germany, so the actually money that goes to fossil fuels are quite much smaller as a result.

Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by ZeroGravitas on Saturday January 01, 2022 @07:10AM (#29757662)
Someone said nuclear is expensive (compared with renewables) which is factually correct.

You said that this was wrong, because countries that deployed renewables needed to pay fossil fuels to standby and then pay them again when there's no wind or sun.

To back this up you pointed to a document about level of subsidies.

That document shows that Germany gives less subsidies to fossil fuels than other countries with nuclear plants, notably France, as a percent of GDP.

You now appear to be trying to wiggle out of this on a technicality because Germany has a bigger economy than France, though even then the final numbers are 12.2 billion vs 11.5 billion.

But, let's pretend that's what you were saying, oh look, countries with nuclear on average subsidize fossil fuels more in absolute terms.

(This is because they are bigger economies, so this is an entirely spurious correlation but even playing by your changed rules, your document doesn't support your argument).

Re:Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants by luckylion on Friday December 31, 2021 @02:48PM (#29751830)
As a leading politician of the German social democratic party famously said: a kwh you don't use is least expensive. I guess they'll save plenty of money when there's power rationing.