Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language?

Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by Jansen312 on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @09:01PM (#29732650)

Depend on what is your target audience. If they are beginner comp sci students then D is ok. Preferably something lispy like Racket. If they are more of "learn to code" and get high paying job, D is not recommended. Python, Java/Kotlin, R, C# or C/C++ would be better choices. If you are focusing on embedded students, C is a must and maybe Rust. If you are focusing on web development, then Javascript/Node is a must. Some people would argue that learning any languages is ok as you learn the concept. But this argument is the same as learning Japanese or Korean so you have "upper hand understanding" of Chinese. Why not just go straight learn Chinese than beating around the bush learning something "similar". There are concepts in C/C++ that are hard to replicate in C# or Python such as pointers and low level memory management. Or, data science community on Python platform that are scarce in others. Same with r for statistics, C# for .Net/Microsoft, Java/Kotlin for Android stuff. Most people have limited ability to learn 1 or 2 languages over their lifetime. Just focus on that most useful and accessible. Good one will always go on and create their own languages.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by tpoacher on Thursday December 30, 2021 @03:35AM (#29734876)

> If they are more of the "learn to code badly" and get a high paying job eventually" camp […]

There, FTFY.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by WalterBright on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @09:24PM (#29732797)

D experts get very well paid programming jobs.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by nerdponx on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @09:31PM (#29732855)

I'm sure that Common Lisp experts do, too. But how many of those jobs are there really?

Also: are they well-paid because they are D experts, or is being a D expert merely correlated with other traits that explain their high pay?

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by WalterBright on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @10:20PM (#29733144)

> But how many of those jobs are there really?

All I can say is they haven't had any trouble getting those jobs.

> are they well-paid because they are D experts, or is being a D expert merely correlated with other traits that explain their high pay?

Both. As related to me by their employers. D experience looks good on the resume. It strongly suggests that the person is not one of those do as little as possible people - that they actually like programming.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by chakkepolja on Thursday December 30, 2021 @12:49PM (#29739063)

With all due respect, there's selection bias in people telling you that.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by DJBunnies on Thursday December 30, 2021 @01:52AM (#29734347)

> they actually like programming.

That has nothing to do with $LANGUAGE.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by pdpi on Thursday December 30, 2021 @03:34AM (#29734864)

If you tell me you work in a dev role of some description, I assume you at least like programming somewhat.

If you then tell me you write Java or C#, that gives me very little additional information. They’re super mainstream languages used by whole armies of “drones” who have no particular passion for the craft, but there’s also some truly passionate people out there, and I don’t know which bucket you fall into.

If you tell me you write D, or Lisp, or Haskell, that’s different. You don’t end up writing any of those by accident, so you either sought them out deliberately or you saw an oddball language and weren’t scared off. That’s definitely strong signal for “actually likes programming”.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by WalterBright on Thursday December 30, 2021 @05:12AM (#29735372)

Yup, in my decades of experience there's a strong correlation.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by mrfox321 on Thursday December 30, 2021 @02:05AM (#29734412)

Why not?

People who know languages to write CRUD may have different professional preferences to people who know Lisp.

If we are okay with stereotyping programming languages, is it not fair to stereotype people who are fluent in said programming languages?

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by akmittal on Thursday December 30, 2021 @02:40AM (#29734591)

There are very few countries/Cities with demand for D. With somethinh like JS much more chances to get hired in almost all parts of world.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by WalterBright on Thursday December 30, 2021 @05:13AM (#29735384)

Do your really want to program in JS? I wrote a Javascript compiler/interpreter for a customer, but the language just never clicked with me.

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Re:Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? by nix23 on Thursday December 30, 2021 @04:02AM (#29735006)

True! Countries/Cities are in need of Cobol/Java, if in possession of Nuclear Weapons Fortran...or ADA ;)

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