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Re:A Farewell to LWN by cromka on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:06PM (#29665877)
Off topic, but hopefully someone helps:

> I forget what kind of computer it was; an early type of PC that belonged to one of the professors.

As a ESOL speaker, it always baffled me how native English speakers would sometimes use present tense "forget" to write about the past. Why is that? The only other time I see same oddity is with "win". I have seen this in enough of high-profile text to assume they're not just typos.

Re:A Farewell to LWN by mtlynch on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:15PM (#29665978)
Interesting! I never realized this was a language difference.

In English, if you say "I forget X," it means that you still don't recall the information in the present. For example, "I forget my first phone number," you presumably forgot it before this moment, but saying, "I forget" conveys that you haven't remembered in the meantime.

If you use the past tense, "I forgot," it leaves open the possibility that you remembered the information later. For example, "I ran into Jake at the mall, and I was about to say hi, but I forgot his name." The speaker forgot the information in the past but has since remembered.

Hope this helps!

Re:A Farewell to LWN by nescioquid on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:34PM (#29666151)
The usage here implies that the action is habitual, not continuous, nor final, e.g. "Every time I tell the story, I forget the name". She could have said "I have forgotten", but that implies a finality the writer wants to exclude. If her habitual forgetting was confined to the past, she might have written "I used to forget...".

I think everything you've said is correct; I just wanted to add the idea of an habitual aspect.

EDIT: found a reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_markers_of_habitual_as...

Re:A Farewell to LWN by da_chicken on Thursday December 23, 2021 @04:37PM (#29666798)
Yeah, habitual tense is very subtle in most forms of English.

The meme-famous Oscar Gable quote, "They don’t think it be like it is, but it do," is an example where some vernacular forms of English emphasize it more. Here, "be" is the habitual tense of "to be." It's not "bad" English. It's a tense you're not recognizing.

Re:A Farewell to LWN by colechristensen on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:27PM (#29666083)
English has more complicated verbs and tenses than many other languages, and this confusion probably comes from the fact that this conjugation doesn’t exist in your native language. This is one of those edge cases that is very difficult to explain, and I’m no expert.

Things like forgetting and winning would seem to be instantaneous things that don’t ever happen “now” only in the past or future.

“I forget” means something like “I have forgotten at some point and continue to not remember” whereas “I forgot” means “I did forget” without reporting anything on your current state of remembering

“I forget” could also mean “forgetting is a thing i often do and expect to continue to do”

Re:A Farewell to LWN by dragonwriter on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:36PM (#29666161)
> English has more complicated verbs and tenses than many other languages

I’ve only learned a few other languages, but none of them have simpler sets of tenses than English (most of them have more differences in conjugation/inflection to reflect them, but also more regularity; English also has a fair number of idioms in which the semantics as far as time don't necessarily match what is normal for the syntax of the tense, but I’m not sure its unusually dense with those.)

EDIT: But:

> “I forget” means something like “I have forgotten at some point and continue to not remember” whereas “I forgot” means “I did forget” without reporting anything on your current state of remembering

If you think of “to forget” as equivalent of “to fail to remember something which one once knew” (which I think is the best understanding of that verb), that’s pretty much just what you’d expect from the present and past tenses, respectively.

Re:A Farewell to LWN by ianai on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:09PM (#29665908)
It’s present tense. Your recollection of all things changes over time. Haven’t you ever been unable to recall something one moment only to remember it later on? They’re saying “I [at present cannot recall]…”
Re:A Farewell to LWN by dahfizz on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:09PM (#29665912)
The forgetting is happening in the present time. The subject, at this moment, forgets about something that happened in the past.
Re:A Farewell to LWN by andrewflnr on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:54PM (#29666353)
I'm actually a native English speaker (30yo), and feel this might actually be a recent usage? I think I started noting it as an oddity in the last decade or so. I kind of like it for the reason mtlynch said, even though you could argue it's less correct than "can't recall". I'm curious if there has actually been a long usage of "forget" this way that I managed to be oblivious of, or if it actually is recent.
Re:A Farewell to LWN by jfk13 on Thursday December 23, 2021 @04:39PM (#29666820)
The OED entry[1] for forget (v.), under sense 1(b), has citations going back a couple centuries:

> b. To fail to recall to mind; not to recollect.

> 1787 ‘G. Gambado’ Acad. Horsemen 12 He says much the same of rabbits and onions, but I forget how he brings that to bear.

> 1847 F. Marryat Children of New Forest II. i. 3 I forget the sign [of the inn].

[1] https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/73319

Re:A Farewell to LWN by OldManAndTheCpp on Thursday December 23, 2021 @03:09PM (#29665914)
The writers current state is forgetting, so it's not totally unreasonable to use the present tense. The good news about English as a language is that it is very resilient to grammar mistakes, you don't need to do all the rules to make someone get it, get it?
Re:A Farewell to LWN by metabagel on Thursday December 23, 2021 @04:15PM (#29666567)
One of the meanings of “forget” is “To be unable to remember (something)”.

https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Forget

Re:A Farewell to LWN by charcircuit on Thursday December 23, 2021 @06:32PM (#29667842)
It's not being used to write about the past. The present him can not remember the detail which is why he uses forget.
Re:A Farewell to LWN by wrp on Thursday December 23, 2021 @08:42PM (#29669015)
When I say "I forget", I am implying that while I can't recall at the moment, I might in the future.
Re:A Farewell to LWN by johnisgood on Thursday December 23, 2021 @05:44PM (#29667361)
Since it is not "forgot", "I forget" here to me would be "I usually forget". English is not my first language.
Re:A Farewell to LWN by leephillips on Thursday December 23, 2021 @04:44PM (#29666866)
How do you feel about the use in English of the past tense to refer to a desired future? “I wish you washed the dishes now and then.”