Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by demetrius on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @05:55AM
(#29647723)
> I was convinced that all these traps had been designed to keep outsiders out, and to allow people to show their level of education
While this is not the original reason, this is one of the reasons not to change things. For example, ‘distinguishing educated and ignorant people’ had been named a reason to keep Ѣ in the Russian alphabet (it was eventually removed after the revolution).
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by WalterBright on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @03:36AM
(#29646858)
Pronunciations and meanings shift all the time in English. Sometimes, words even flip meanings - like "fine" can mean anything but fine. Depends on the context!
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by throwaway2037 on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @09:23AM
(#29649680)
Japanese has a similarly maddening expression for non-native speakers: "Kekko desu." (けっこです。) For example, if you have coffee and someone asks you if you want milk and sugar... to decline, you might reply "kekko desu" -- which means "it's fine as it is." It's tough to understand when to use it correctly! Still now, after more than 10 years of learning Japanese, I have memorised a few key situations when it is correct/safe to use the expression.
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by WalterBright on Thursday December 23, 2021 @01:42AM
(#29659314)
I adjust my use of English to the person or group I am talking to. This is sometimes derided as "coded speech", but I think it is just common courtesy.
But sometimes the word choices of ESL speakers just sound better than proper English, and I tend to pick that up, too. For example, I still find myself saying now and then:
"I'm going to make some shoppings."
"It's time for go."
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by bradknowles on Sunday December 26, 2021 @07:22PM
(#29697714)
French does this too, and thanks to the official guardian and creator of the language known as L’Academie Française, they don’t have that excuse.
But don’t get me started on Welsh.
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by boudin on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @03:42AM
(#29646896)
I think it's more historical than anything. If someone has a better explanation I would like to hear it though. For example, words that comes from French have the letter "i" pronounced the french way, other pronounced like a "y"
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by Ratalala on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @03:47AM
(#29646939)
And the local variations. In NZ the bulk of "e"s in words like pen, ten, etc. are often pronounced as "i"s, like in pin or tin. Took me a while to get used to it.
Re:English has been my pain for 15 years (2013)
by dmurray on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @04:09AM
(#29647081)
Some of them, but I don't think this is a rule. I would say more so for uncommon words that are recognizably French, and less so in US English. Historical accident is definitely the main cause.
Compare dauphin, cinema, dime.
When I was a child, I was convinced that all these traps had been designed to keep outsiders out, and to allow people to show their level of education. I always thought these traps were there to make it clear who were higher class, when I started learning English I became convinced this was the case.
Now I'm older and realized that it's probably just because languages are not designed, and some evolve worse than others.