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Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by norswap on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @12:13PM (#29639484)
All loans are overcollateralized, and basically used for leverage: put up your bitcoins as collateral, borrow stablecoins, buy more bitcoins.

So the risk is limited as long as the loans can be liquidated in time in case of a price crash.

The rates are determined the ratio of all stablecoin liquidity provided vs the amount actually borrowed. Liquidity providers can remove liquidity at any time, and so the smaller the remaining liquidity buffer gets, the higher the fees gets.

Most of the rates are dynamic: i.e. the interest rate on your existing loan can increase drastically if there is a liquidity crunch. In practice your interest is charged as though it was extra borrowing and so lowers your liquidiation threshold.

On the flip side, the dynamic rate also means that as the liquidity gets thinner, the interest rate paid to liquidity provider gets higher, meaning it incentivizes liquidity deposits when they are most needed.

Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by bluedevil2k on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @01:21PM (#29640345)
> put up your bitcoins as collateral, borrow stablecoins, buy more bitcoins

Nothing could possibly go wrong with this, right? Tether is found to not have the reserves they claim and it plunges, and the artificial demand for bitcoin disappears and it plunges as well.

Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by Osiris on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @02:34PM (#29641152)
DeFi loans are over-collatoralized usually by 1.5-2x.

If you want to borrow $100k, you put up $200k in collateral.

Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by anonymousDan on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @02:59PM (#29641400)
Sorry I don't get it. Why would you lock up 200k in order to borrow 100k? Why not just use part of the 200k you already have?!
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by hrhrhrhrhr on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:19PM (#29641618)
If you believe that the value of Bitcoin is going to go up, it makes sense to lock is as a collateral and spend the borrowed fiat instead of selling the Bitcoins.
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by majormajor on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:53PM (#29641968)
Is there a part of the system that keeps working even if the value of bitcoin stops (being believed to keep) going up all the time?

If ETH or some other new token takes more and more mindshare from btc isn’t that a big inflationary pressure on the crypto ecosystem as a whole? More tokens = less valuable tokens.

At some point buy the dip will turn into cash out.

Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by hrhrhrhrhr on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @04:52PM (#29642580)
If the value of Bitcoin stops going up, sooner or later your debt grows larger than the amount you were allowed to borrow and your collateral gets liquidated by someone who implemented the fastest liquidator bot.

https://docs.aave.com/developers/guides/liquidations

Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by colinmhayes on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:31PM (#29641745)
To lever gains. Now you can "own" 300k worth of bitcoin gains with only 200k worth of bitcoins. Of course the downside is that loses are levered too.
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by Qworg on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @04:14PM (#29642178)
Different tax treatment. Locking up to buy something with the loan doesn't expose you to gains.
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by yokem55 on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:34PM (#29641780)
To retain the price exposure of the asset worth 200k while avoiding selling or spending it.
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by giantrobot on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @05:20PM (#29642815)
You gotta pay the upline!
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by beefield on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @01:51PM (#29640628)
> So the risk is limited as long as the loans can be liquidated in time in case of a price crash.

If I may guess, it seems unlikely there are too many folks in DeFi circles who have ever heard acronym LTCM.

(TL;DR: A bunch of actual Nobel laureates (no kidding, or at least as much as Nobel price in economics is an actual Nobel) founded a huge and famous hedge fund with a trading strategy assuming they can liquidate their position at market prices. At this point you may guess that it ended tits up and was kind of a mess. Time will tell if DeFi folks were smarter than that.)

Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by xur17 on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:48PM (#29645003)
Collateral is sold off automatically once they breach some threshold (varies, but it's always > 100%), and there are bots that compete to do this as quickly as possible. This is in no means perfect, but it is quite responsive, and did survive crypto's March 2020 price crash.
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by yokem55 on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @01:52AM (#29646273)
There were some denial of service issues that on Ethereum during the March 2020 crash that caused Maker DAO to have some Zero bid liquidations and the protocol had to mint and sell off some of Maker's token to keep all the issued DAI properly backed. This did not happen again in the crash in May, which was nearly as steep, but the protocols all kept functioning as expected.
Re:DeFi risks and the decentralisation illusion by Ekaros on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:26PM (#29641686)
It really sounds like fun and games until it all comes crashing down...

Then again if it's all crypto and everything goes down at once, I suppose there isn't too big issue. Apart from losing some fiat, but they who cares about that in cryptoworld...