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Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by scblock on Saturday December 18, 2021 @10:43PM (#29611112)
"It’s also no secret that the average size of a website is huge, and it’s only going to get larger."

This attitude seems common, that websites are just going to be fat and get fatter. That's a lie.

Not if you, as a web developer, stop the bloat. The power is in your hands, you just need to use it.

No, you don't need that 8 MB hero image. No, you don't need that bloated framework. No, you don't need those 37 tracking libraries. No, you don't need a "Read More" button hiding most of the content. No, you don't need dynamically loaded clickbait at the bottom of the page. No, you don't need an autoplaying video. No, you don't need load a script to inject text into a copy operation. No, you don't need 87 cookies. No you don't need to load random unvetted code from a third party advertiser. No, you don't need the page text to fade in on scroll. No, you don't need any of that.

In case you forgot, https://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by kisamoto on Saturday December 18, 2021 @11:38PM (#29611370)
More often than not I feel these decisions are out of the developers hands.

As a dev, I want to use tree shaking to make my bundles small and optimize to make my website lighthouse score 100 across the board.

What happens? Marketing needs tag manager installed and then proceeds to async load 50 tracking scripts in the background.

Design wants the large hero images because on the high Res devices they use it looks slightly pixelated and when you push back, a quick screenshot to the PM will guarantee the ticket is added to the backlog.

Point being I'm not sure claiming that Devs hold the power is particularly constructive as there is a large portion on non-techies who have their own priorities to push.

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by 5e92cb50239222b on Sunday December 19, 2021 @01:04AM (#29611803)
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by thundermuffin on Sunday December 19, 2021 @01:27AM (#29611906)
I've had the exact situation kisamoto is talking about happen to me countless times, and I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've won the battle over images. Sadly, the folks calling the shots on what images to use and exactly how they need to look do not care that I'm using responsive imagery to serve images to our users with appropriate file sizes, reasonable resolutions, and ensure crops have editor selected focal points.

When I say these folks get upset over slight pixelization, I'm not even talking about pixelization where everyone can tell it's a low quality image. I'm talking about situations where people are upset they can't read an iPhone screen someone is holding in the background when they are viewing it on their 4K display (note: that particular phone isn't the focal point of the shot, nor does it have anything to add to it; it's just someone staged back there to make the shot feel more alive, mind you!).

It's disheartening because I do want to deliver the best experience possible and try to do everything in my power to accomplish it, but sometimes I lose out and folks force their megabyte imagery.

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by Dylan16807 on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:45AM (#29611692)
We need to figure out a better way to manage images that have multiple qualities. Something that can take connection into account.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by nine_k on Saturday December 18, 2021 @10:55PM (#29611158)
The technical worker who codes up the web site and its backend does have a say, but not a lot of it. Product and sales people have a stronger say, because they optimize for the money the web site produces.

Explaining them how much worse the bloat makes the site's experience for the user, showing how many pages are left partially loaded because the user did not have the patience and navigated away, how the competitor's site loads faster, may help convince them to keep the experience reasonably slim.

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by bitwize on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:26AM (#29611610)
This.

Asking for web sites that don't have 27 trackers, enormous hero images, a full copy of framework of the week, etc. is like asking for native games under Linux: the money isn't there to justify the added hassle and support costs.

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by arnaudsm on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:49AM (#29611712)
The whole point of the article is that poor optimisation make you loose a big part of your audience. The money is there, you just don't notice it.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by MattGaiser on Saturday December 18, 2021 @11:13PM (#29611247)
And as a dev, I make none of those decisions.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by Gigachad on Saturday December 18, 2021 @11:29PM (#29611325)
Also as a dev, I don’t really care. It’s not my money on the line, it’s the companies. If the site sucks and users don’t like it, the company loses profits and they will be forced to change.

The only thing I take a stand on is when the product is actively harmful and immoral. Just being shit or slow is not my problem.

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by chrismorgan on Sunday December 19, 2021 @05:10AM (#29612728)
Trouble is that your users are generally in a similar situation, not getting to choose what tools they use. By producing bad software, you’re making their life harder personally.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by rovr138 on Sunday December 19, 2021 @05:25PM (#29619091)
As a dev, I don't produce bad software.

Users of the features we develop are the ones that produce bad websites.

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by zerocount on Sunday December 19, 2021 @02:54AM (#29612226)
I agree. The few times I've cared fell on deaf ears.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by sergiotapia on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:08AM (#29611526)
Dangerously based response, Gigachad.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by atoav on Saturday December 18, 2021 @11:43PM (#29611397)
Cool bonus: if you skip a lot of that stuff you also wont need a cookie banner, your page will load faster and feel better
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by jahewson on Sunday December 19, 2021 @01:02AM (#29611792)
But… marketing put the 8MB hero image there using their CMS. The other marketing people put the 37 trackers there using Google Tag Manager.

There’s also mystery JS that slows down everything and breaks random parts of our app - that’s your Chrome extensions :)

Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by ronsor on Saturday December 18, 2021 @11:33PM (#29611349)
You don't need those 37 tracking libraries, but management does.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by scblock on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:08AM (#29611524)
They don't need them either. Doesn't matter what they think, the truly do not need them. It's time to stop this.
Re:Test your product on a crappy laptop by ekianjo on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:54AM (#29611752)
Good luck explaining them that.