Believe me, I understand the frustrations of representing a minority point of view, but if you vent that frustration by tossing flamebait around, you're not only damaging the container we all depend on here, you're discrediting what you're trying to advocate for. That helps nothing and is not in your interests.
And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. That's what you get with state controlled media and people learning about the West by watching Friends or Transformers.
Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China. Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require.
Only 60% of Chinese even attend high school (which isn’t compulsory), you are making a huge claim about the typical young person in China a when China is a huge country. Your claim might be true for comparing young Chinese in the big cities to all young Americans (including in small towns), but that isn’t a very fair comparison.
> Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require.
VPNs to jump the GFW are incredibly unreliable (they tend to disappear after you pay your yearly fee), most don’t bother.
> Western understanding of the rest of the world is severely lacking
I would wager that Western countries, on average, have a better view of the world than non-Western countries, if for no other reason than the privileges their wealth and liberalism entail. Do you think the average Russian, African, South American, Chinese, (Yes, I'm aware some of that list is continents, and some is countries) etc. has access to a greater wealth of information and experience with regard to the Rest of the world?
Keep in mind I'm not saying this as a point of superiority or anything, just pointing out your lack of a well-grounded point.
Sure, if you are comparing populations as a whole, but if you are comparing the subsets of educated people from each country that are participating in the global discourse I strongly disagree. There's no point in comparing the average Russian or African or Chinese person. Are we ever interacting with them? Do they drive any policy?
It's frustrating when talking about any subject. The problem is, this is how people digest information. They take in pieces and regurgitate it. Hopefully they are open minded enough to take criticism so that over time the regurgitations get more accurate. The discussion is important for everyone, but not everyone is going to know everything at once.
As far as grouping together entire populations: Totally agree. There is no point in making sweeping generalizations, which is why I pointed out the parents bad argument. Not only was it a pointless point to make, but it was also wrong. 'Westerns' are no more ignorant about the world than 'non-Westerners'.
This really shows in conversations about China. Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media. People are operating with such a wildly distorted, wacky view of China that it's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion about the country.
Source?
>Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media.
If that's your argument, I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. You don't honestly believe the Chinese media feeds a more accurate view of the world to it's constituents do you? They literally outlaw information, and have what essentially constitutes a CCP controlled national intranet. If we were to rank China against ALL western nations for information and journalism freedom they'd be dead last: https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
Edit: I'd also like to point out that I, as an educated American, have worked with people from 12 different countries, for a number of years each, across 3 companies that have employed me. All within the U.S. borders. How many non-Western countries have such a wonderful amount of diversity?
I've interacted extensively with educated people in the West and China. The asymmetry is obvious.
Most educated people in the West have almost no clue about China. Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture, and many use VPNs to get around the Great Firewall.
> I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations.
The news in China is, of course, heavily biased.
However, when it comes to coverage of China, the news media in Western countries does a terrible job. Coverage is extremely distorted, and focuses almost exclusively on whatever issues the current US government is pushing (Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.). Almost anything will be presented in a negative light. China builds a railway in Laos: is China trying to debt-trap Laos? China exports over a billion doses of vaccine: can we trust Chinese vaccines?
I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding of China. The picture you'll get will be warped beyond recognition.
So, anecdotally that's your experience, ok. I don't think a greater exposure to pop-culture necessarily makes on better equipped to talk about the ethics of censorship, forced labor, and the dangers of centralized systems. I'd wager as far as substantive information goes, the asymmetry you're describing doesn't exist.
> I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding
Most people, educated or not, know this. Thankfully we have access to the entire internet and the entire body of human literature, even among those not tech savvy enough to use a VPN.
My argument is not 'cable news does a great job', my argument is 'the wests liberal access to information and wealth affords it's affluent and educated a more complete and clear picture of the world', which you are failing to rebut.
Yes, anecdotally, almost every single educated person I know in the West is remarkably ignorant about China. They don't know even the most basic things, like the names of the major provinces or the names of cities with 15 million people. They couldn't tell you the first thing about Chinese history. When did the empire fall? They couldn't name one major Chinese literary figure in the last 500 years.
I'm talking about people who are fairly international, who might speak a few different European languages. The sheer lack of knowledge is really striking.
I don't think it's the case that the people I know are almost all anomalous in this way. Knowledge of China is simply near zilch in the West.
Young, educated Chinese people practically all speak English to at least a basic level. That already gives them more knowledge about the West than the average educated Westerner has of China.
> forced labor
I'm assuming you're talking about Xinjiang. This is an issue that I am certain your average person in China understands far better than your average New York Times reader. The programs that are being labeled "forced labor" by the US government are fairly well known in China. With a lot of these types of China stories that hit the news from time to time in the West, you'll find that the average taxi driver in China knows more detail than what you'll read in Western newspapers. The idea that Westerners know what's going on in China better than people in China do is just hubris.