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Re:Power imbalances and sex by wayoutthere on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:12PM (#29581602)
I think this is a very white, cisgendered view of the problem. If you fit within the mainstream beauty standards, great! You have some power over men and I think that’s awesome. If you don’t, most of the guys interested are fetishizing the things that make you not part of those standards. They’re looking for someone to fulfill a porno fantasy, not a partner.

As a trans woman who passes for cis, I can tell you that lots of men want to sleep with me, but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me after I disclose that I’m trans (and from talking to women of color, this is not unique to trans women). There’s no power there other than transactional. So I’ve had to learn to always be on guard and find ways to filter out the fetishists to meet the men who aren’t ashamed to date me.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by pwdisswordfish0 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:43PM (#29582057)
>They’re looking for someone to fulfill a porno fantasy, not a partner.

That seems pretty obvious considering one want is a subset of the other. If I’m physically attracted to you but not in other ways, I can still want to have sex with you. That’s a single box to be ticked, whereas “potential partner” is the title of the entire checklist. Surely this is a ubiquitous phenomenon that applies to mainstream beauties as well. In fact, you’ll hear them complain about it, too, as described in TFA.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by ketzo on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:55PM (#29582233)
Having part of your identity/physical existence fetishized is suuuuper different from just being wanted.
Re:Power imbalances and sex by Chris2048 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:19PM (#29581698)
> I can tell you that lots of men want to sleep with me, but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me

Is this different from being a cis-woman?

Re:Power imbalances and sex by ketzo on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:25PM (#29581793)
I think the subtext is "a lot of men want to sleep with me only because I am a trans woman," and then are freaked out by the idea of actually dating her, which is an extremely common occurrence for trans women.

There is, as OP alluded to, a very strong fetishization of non-white, non-cis women.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by wayoutthere on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:25PM (#29581788)
Yeah, very much so. Once you hit your 30s people are looking for more than hookups. I have cis girlfriends who have a much easier time finding decent guys. Heck I have no trouble finding them, they just don’t stick around after they find out I’m trans. I basically just gave up on men my age and date guys ~10 years younger since they don’t seem to have as much of a hangup about it.
Re:Power imbalances and sex by throwaway8582 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:44PM (#29582888)
> but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me after I disclose that I’m trans

I'd guess most of the men that are looking for a "real relationship" are doing so because they want to find somebody to have children with, especially at 30+. In general they are not going to invest time and energy into building a relationship with someone that lacks the proper organs to conceive a child.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by wayoutthere on Thursday December 16, 2021 @03:14PM (#29583272)
I’m older than a cis woman would reasonably be expected to be able to conceive without extensive effort. And I’m 100% ok with adopting.
Re:Power imbalances and sex by akyoan on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:38PM (#29581990)
I’m not sure what your point is. You seem to have the Thing the article mentions and appear to be in the group of people who don’t like the game.

What I read here is just that you’re just as discriminatory as the people who you complain about. I don’t see any mentions of race in the article and what it describes applies to most cultures and every race.

Stop being racist and maybe people will stick around after receiving the Thing.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by ketzo on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:52PM (#29582189)
> Stop being racist

What? The OP is trying to look at the premise of the post through a lens of race – non-white women are often fetishized by white men for their non-whiteness. I mean, shit, look at... any porn site. And they're right – fetishization makes for a totally different dating experience, a different experience of The Thing.

Where is the racism here? Is just mentioning the idea of race somehow racist?

Re:Power imbalances and sex by BlueTemplar on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:39PM (#29582800)
Actually, yes, kind of the whole point - the concept of race is racist. And "looking through a lens of race" is racist too.

(EDIT : the OP doesn't mention race though, so the blame might be actually more on the answerer.)

The whole concept is not only scientifically flawed (and so was largely abandoned by anthropologists, who prefer to use the much more culturally than genetically defined concept of ethnicity), but has also resulted in untold suffering in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Not that fetishization of skin color isn't an issue, but affirming the validity of race by using it to think about this issue is guaranteed to make matters worse.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by wayoutthere on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:53PM (#29583013)
Race as a biological imperative of some sort is absolutely hogwash. What race you are seen as says nothing about who you are as a person or what you are capable of. On that we agree.

Race as a sociological phenomenon is very real to those who experience it. Fetishization of race in sex is demonstrably real as well and not limited to women.

Regardless, race isn’t really the important part — it was just an example. You could replace race with any number of descriptors of a person (weight, height, etc) and it doesn’t make it feel any better to be fetishized; it’s not two people having sex, it’s one person having sex with an idea. Ideas aren’t supposed to have feelings, dreams, or agency.

Some combinations of these sociological states are just a lot more likely to be fetishized (and porn sites have the stats on that!) And when they are, it changes the power dynamics around sex significantly.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Thursday December 16, 2021 @03:09PM (#29583225)
> Actually, yes, kind of the whole point - the concept of race is racist

I disagree. Having to do with race is racial, not racist. The latter is inherently prejudiced. Merely mentioning race does not make something racist.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by gorwell on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:06PM (#29582377)
What would you call it when someone is obsessed with race and views skin color as paramount? Squeezing everything through that lens and making judgements on that basis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg

Re:Power imbalances and sex by ketzo on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:10PM (#29582438)
Looking to examine an argument through the context of physical appearance, in an article about physical appearances, does not speak to me of obsession or "squeezing."

We're talking about fetishization, sexual gaze, and power dynamics. It would be irresponsible to not talk about the role that race plays in this conversation.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by akyoan on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:56PM (#29597563)
> It would be irresponsible to not talk about the role that race plays in this conversation.

Hard disagree. What you're saying reminds me of Seinfeld’s "Not that there's anything wrong with that" suffix and "I'm not racist, but" starter. You don't have to mention things that are obvious, you're just making the conversation awkward.

I fail to see how talking about race (keep reading) changes anything about the the concept at hand: People want you because you have "the Thing, and maybe only the Thing."

"Being an Asian woman" itself can be the Thing, that's still covered by the article.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by akyoan on Thursday December 16, 2021 @03:34PM (#29583501)
Are you serious right now? Do you think white women are not fetishized by black men and Asian men? I live in Asia and let me tell you something…

Both your comment and the parent are racist because you’re applying common issues to “white men” while they’re really not limited by race in any way whatsoever. Whether this or that race is fetishized by which race is completely irrelevant in the context of the article.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by wayoutthere on Thursday December 16, 2021 @03:45PM (#29583667)
Fetishization is absolutely relevant in the context of the article. It completely changes the power dynamics associated with sex, which is what the article is about.

And I absolutely do believe white people can be fetishized! But this article is written in the context of a white person living in a predominantly white society. My main argument is that her experience is not generalizable to the wider population, who experience the power dynamics of sex very differently.

Re:Power imbalances and sex by jmeister on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:14PM (#29582475)
I bet the parent doesn’t even realize they’re being racist.
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Re:Power imbalances and sex by commandlinefan on Thursday December 16, 2021 @01:44PM (#29582085)
I was trying to figure out as I read it if this viewpoint was coming from a man or a woman.