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Re:A Safer San Francisco by jankyxenon on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:15PM (#29560710)
I don’t think the people living on the streets of the tenderloin are there because of housing prices.

They’re there because of drug and mental health issues.

In Europe, they’re not tolerant of drug use on the streets. Even in cities where it’s decriminalized.

On the flip side, in countries with mass poverty issues and mass homelessness - the slums aren’t necessarily a place of rampant and constant drug usage. (You still see grinding poverty and families on the street, but it’s different)

Re:A Safer San Francisco by kelnos on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:48PM (#29561031)
Not sure about the Tenderloin specifically, but often the causality is the reverse of what you suggest: people develop mental health and drug issues due to the pressures they face after becoming homeless.
Re:A Safer San Francisco by ransom1538 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:57PM (#29561097)
Nope. You lose your family, friends and home after falling deep into drug abuse. You have it backwards.
Re:A Safer San Francisco by rat87 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:35PM (#29560910)
I'm pretty sure homelessness would go down significantly if housing was available. Drug and mental issues are significant but they're more easily treatable of people are housed, and it's easier to help more people with housing if housing costs to pay/subsidize isn't sky high. And if we build a LOT more prices will go down.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/homelessness-housing

Re:A Safer San Francisco by jankyxenon on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:39PM (#29560954)
I’m all for a monstrous building spree in places like SF. It’ll solve a lot of problems.

But - at the risk of sounding callous - why would someone down and out on the streets of the Tenderloin think, even if they completely sober up and clean themselves up, that it’s a long-term sustainable option to live in one of the highest cost of living cities in the world.

Re:A Safer San Francisco by pvarangot on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:28PM (#29560837)
> In Europe, they’re not tolerant of drug use on the streets. Even in cities where it’s decriminalized.

Ehm Berlin and Frankfurt are pretty much Europe and there's open drug use and selling on "sanctuary districts", same as San Francisco. On Frankfurt it's more blatant because it's right by the train station, but a little bit more nuanced than in SF because they have "safe drug use houses" so people don't do it in the sidewalk.

Re:A Safer San Francisco by cletus on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:32PM (#29560883)
You can't look at tolerance for open drug use in isolation. It's part of a complete system that includes a social safety net, access to medical care, treatment for mental health issues and the initial conditions that cause people to become drug dependent in the first place.

Europe understands that people are entitled to and deserve a basic standard of living. It largely explains why the EU has expanded eastwards into former Soviet bloc countries where people are much poorer. The EU as a whole takes an economic hit for that but it's an undeniable good for those poorer members.

Whereas in the US, people seem to be stuck in a 19th century "every man for himself" frontier cosplay.

Re:A Safer San Francisco by refurb on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @09:01PM (#29561122)
Huh? Go to the downtown east side of Vancouver and it’s as bad if not worse than SF. And all those folks have free healthcare, plenty of social services and even clean injection sites.

That didn’t solve the problem in the least. It certainly reduces harm, but not drug use.

Re:A Safer San Francisco by ransom1538 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @09:00PM (#29561113)
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Re:A Safer San Francisco by jankyxenon on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @09:03PM (#29561137)
Are you talking about the Marshall plan and the Cold War or something?

What would the mechanism be of Europe’s disintegration if the US pulled out of the EU today?