VS Code isn't bloated if you never install any extension. You can't hold Microsoft responsible for third party bloat.

Well, sort of. The problem is it's difficult to implement a lot of extension functionality in efficient ways, and sometimes they make it too easy to do it in really really inefficient ways. Examples:

* LSP uses JSON. Even worse, VSCode uses UTF-16 internally (because Javascript does, more or less). But JSON uses UTF-8. So for correct operation VSCode converts the UTF-16 to UTF-8, and then your language server has to convert it back to UTF-16 to figure out the row/col positions (which are in UTF-16 units).

* LSP has an "easy mode" where the entire document is sent to the language server on every keypress!

* Some functions like `provideDocumentLinks()` operate on the entire document, so on every keypress (maybe it batches them I don't know), all linkifier extensions will run a load of regexes over the whole document.

There's definitely scope for a text editor with an extension API that encourages speed.

Well… it‘s built on Electron. If your editor comes with its own browser, that‘s bloat.

It is subjective and depends on your baseline. When you're used to fast editors ((neo)vim, sublime text back in the day, etc.), then VS Code is sluggish and bloated out of the box, and the idea of adding extensions that could make it worse is nightmare fuel.

But not using a single plugin is near impossible.

VSCodium is fine, so is emacs and vim. I use them along with IntelliJ IDEA. This "code editor" looks pretty minimal in comparison to the ones I mentioned... at least as far as the screenshot goes.

sublime text is the best editor currently, in my view.

apart from code folding.

Not FOSS. For many, that's an issue. Personally, I just don't feel comfortable working with sensitive information or proto-executables in closed-source software. I get the appeal, if you come from macOS or Windows, but for Linux it's often the first "dirty" thing you would introduce, so it feels like a big deal.

Btw. I have used Sublime. It is a very nice Editor. Most importantly incredibly snappy and so far no other editor matched Sublime's intuitive `TAB` completion dynamics.

Oh, yeah, and it's fucking expensive...

>Personally, I just don't feel comfortable working with sensitive information or proto-executables in closed-source software.

So, just how the biggest companies, banks, governments, etc. in the world work (using e.g. Excel, Word, Visual Studio, etc)...

Honestly "big companies, banks, governments" do sound like the usual suspects for writing programs insecurely to me (I work for one of those).

Yes, but if this is standard procedure in 99.999% of cases, I doubt "good enough for them" habit of running a commercial binary that's not open source (basically how the whole planet except perhaps NSA and such works), is not also good enough for some random linux user (assuning they don't trade in ultra-sensitive data).

As I said, it is not good enough for me. Why do you feel the need to argue for closed-source software, anyway? Do you need to justify this to yourself? Rest assured, personally, I don't care what you feel comfortable using.

on a side note, banks and governments often actually audit closed-source code, as they get that worked out in their contracts. Go ahead and ask Microsoft, if you could do the same...

>Why do you feel the need to argue for closed-source software, anyway? Do you need to justify this to yourself? Rest assured, personally, I don't care what you feel comfortable using.

Why do you feel the need for ad-hominen arguments and pop-psychology BS? Do you feel personally validated because you use Open Source, compensating for other lacks in your life, perhaps not being loved enough as a kid?

See how two can play this game? Maybe stick to practical arguments?

My point was in practical use, trusting a proprietary commercial binary (from Microsoft, Oracle, whatever) is not a big issue for far more sensitive environments (banks, governents, etc) than the average user case.

Lol. I was just stating my personal preferences, then you came calling me out unreasonable. I made it very clear, that it's about how I feel about it. Not reason. I am not arguing at all.

But hey, I also gave you an actual argument, you ignored......

> Oh, yeah, and it's fucking expensive...

~80 USD per user (not per computer, per user), and then you have support for that version the X upcoming years. I understand 80 USD is a lot of money for some people, but I would argue for businesses it isn't and it isn't if you compare it to other stuff. Which requires subscription, or lets you pay with your data / advertising. Even if FOSS, that's arguably worse.

(I use Sublime and Vim, sometimes Vi, and on Citrix we got Notepad++ which is Windows-only.)

> Personally, I just don't feel comfortable working with sensitive information or proto-executables in closed-source software.

For starters, you could decide to not not hang it on a network 24/7. Or hang it in a different VLAN than the stuff on your network using Log4j.

Eh, 80 dollars is pretty expensive yeah, but I bought my Sublime Text 3 beta license like 6 years ago while I was a student. I had like 200$ to my name back then and felt like it was worth it despite not even adding anything to my experience other than removing the "please activate sublime" popup.

I have access to Sublime Text 3, and even to the Sublime Text 4 beta.

I also pay the yearly Jetbrains full-suite subscription.

You do you. For me, that editor is not 80 USD better than... well, there are a lot of great alternatives. It's not even like Sublime is flawless, and I am not sure I would use it, if it was FOSS (tho, then it may become flawless over time).

Also, apparently it's $100 USD now. C'mon, 100 bucks for a basic text editor?!

$100 per compared to however much you make per year using that tool is nothing if that tool makes you more productive. Personally, I haven’t found a lot of great alternatives. Picking the best text editor is like picking the best mail client: you settle for the least shitty one. I am happy to pay good developers for good tools that make me more productive. Focusing on open source at all costs is a great way to ignore the actual costs of those tools.

Also, developers are spoiled af. Imagine if you worked in industrial design or something. The standard there is something like solidworks or autocad. You’d get laughed out of the room if you tried to stumble through with some open source alternative. Just the software can be $x000/year and that’s not even considering the hardware that some might need to stay productive. You want to actually prototype something? Pony up another pile of money for a CNC or a laser cutter or whatever + the operator time (if you don’t know how to do it) + the materials.

It was my daily driver for programming, editing.. pretty much everything text related until their latest version. Autocomplete became extremely annoying and the editor feels less snappier. After years I ended up switching to VS Code, and I keep sublime text when I quickly want to edit a text file.

Yep, I'm either on Sublime or Emacs.

Unironically yes. It's so fast.

Only problem with sublime is the exorbitant price. It's just too much!

$100 for what one (three?) years?

Seriously?

Forget the exorbitant tech salaries, so many other industries charge way more for essential equipment. That's chaper than a single snap-on wrench out of the hundreds that an automative shop has to buy. It's two months of adobe bundle that most graphic designers subscribe to. I think the perspective here is important.

Not everyone on HN is on Silicon Valley wages. Or even work in international tech hubs like SV or London.

For some in tech, $100 is a hell of a lot of money.

$100 for a text editor seems quite expensive to me. I agree it is not much in comparison to many other professional tools.

agree :) daily driver. nova.app pretty great stuff too

The bloating cycle should merit its own xkcd comic I guess. VS Code was specifically successful because it was perceived as much less bloated then IDEs, yet much more user friendly than most editors. Now we hear complaints that it is bloated. What will be next?

All "lightweight", "fast" shiny new things are so because they have plenty of missing features. But anyway is it a widespread opinion that VSCode is bloated? Because for me at least it feels fast, especially considering all its features.

VSCode is bloated [0]. I ran a fresh install on a 1st gen i5, it couldn't process keyboard input on an empty file above 4 char per sec. Levels of lag my brain couldn't remember (and I'm a hp48g lover.. not known for zero latency).

[0] That was last year, so maybe it was a buggy release (doubt it) or maybe they made big improvements since (possible)

A challenge is that we tend to have roughly the same 80 percent point for things like editors, but all want different sets of features for the remaining 20. You then either end up with bloat or extensibility/plugins, or both.

Emacs isn’t slow

Ya...it's going downhill :-( I liked it as a lightweight editor. Now it's just another IDE. But instead I have to sift through thousands of half-baked 3rd party plugins to get the functions I need. Editors/IDEs should do one thing or the either well.

>But instead I have to sift through thousands of half-baked 3rd party plugins to get the functions I need

That's the entire point? The functions don't exist because it's supposed to be lightweight.

If you're finding that you need 20+ plugins to add features then I've got news for you, you're looking for an IDE that has all these built in by default.

Not OP but..

I have certainly around 20 plugins in my Vim and it runs faster than Usain Bolt.

I agree with your first point but the IDE argument is wrong. I could use 100 plugins and it still would not be an IDE nor would I want one.

>* If you're finding that you need 20+ plugins to add features then I've got news for you, you're looking for an IDE that has all these built in by default.*

I also have news for you, VS Code's whole selling point was "built-your-own-IDE" and big plugin ecosystem, not "here's yet another lightweight editor".

Other than having to put up with Electron, nope it isn't bloated, in fact it is still missing lots of nice IDE like features.

well the bottleneck is electron. The startup times have consistently increased since I first started using it, now it uses north of 1gig RAM for a decent size project, too much for a text editor :(

Don't get started on the popups though!

And I don't use any extension