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Re:The Invention of Chinese by yorwba on Saturday December 11, 2021 @08:57PM (#29526357)
Except 呢 means "this", not "you", so you fooled yourself into believing you could understand something which you did not.
Re:The Invention of Chinese by pishpash on Saturday December 11, 2021 @09:23PM (#29526532)
The earliest known dictionary of Chinese was 爾雅, meaning "Near refinement". It is common for languages to use "near" and "far" to indicate "this" and "that". Of course it would take somebody literate to know this, which most internet junkies today are unfortunately not.
Re:The Invention of Chinese by Aperocky on Saturday December 11, 2021 @10:07PM (#29526770)
It might be unfortunate that I'm illiterate in classical Chinese, but I thank you, who are literate, for proving my point that all of these dialects have common underpinnings.
Re:The Invention of Chinese by starfallg on Saturday December 11, 2021 @11:47PM (#29527238)
I don't think anybody is arguing that Cantonese and Mandarin doesn't have common underpinnings, but rather that they are not mutually intelligible.

French and Spanish, as romance languages, have a lot in common but they are separate languages. Writing Cantonese in standard written Chinese is similar to asking Spanish speakers not to write phonetically, but to rather write in French.

Re:The Invention of Chinese by thuccess129 on Monday December 13, 2021 @06:11AM (#29538561)
> internet junkies today

The American Mandarin Society has courses for Professionals. I guess they make quality judgement on what to keep or throwout in use of the Chinese language in their curated walled garden for snooty State official use.

Re:The Invention of Chinese by Aperocky on Saturday December 11, 2021 @09:10PM (#29526449)
爾 as a character does have both meanings.

As characters are not married to pronounciations, both old (i.e. classical) texts and newer memes can be hard to understand or misunderstood despite knowing all characters. Guesses are often close enough, which is a feature of the logogram.

Re:The Invention of Chinese by yorwba on Saturday December 11, 2021 @09:32PM (#29526579)
Well, 呢 is unambiguous where 爾 is not. Similar reasoning as introducing 你 as a separate character for "you".

Out of curiosity, do you speak a variety other than Mandarin? And if so, do you think you'd be able to find "proper" characters for everything you could say, like pishpash did above?

Re:The Invention of Chinese by Aperocky on Saturday December 11, 2021 @10:01PM (#29526739)
> you think you'd be able to find "proper" characters for everything you could say

The matter isn't whether I can find the proper character for everything you could say, but rather whether the spoken variety themselves can be based on written characters. In the example case you gave, it does.

The spoken varieties of Chinese can still be mapped to a set of characters, that still means there's a commonality underlying all of these variety. For instance, Beijing dialect/slang "颠儿" means '(he/she) is gone', which wouldn't be readily apparent or understandable to even mandarin speakers. but the first character has the meaning "run/trip".

Re:The Invention of Chinese by yorwba on Sunday December 12, 2021 @03:30AM (#29528031)
> Beijing dialect/slang "颠儿" means '(he/she) is gone', which wouldn't be readily apparent or understandable to even mandarin speakers. but the first character has the meaning "run/trip".

Old dictionaries list 颠 as a synonym of 顶 only, without a "run/trip" meaning. Most likely the character was only used for this word because both are pronounced "diān" in Mandarin and people didn't bother to make a new character, e.g. by combining [足颠]. The -儿 suffix is also interesting, because the sound modification it represents is something Beijing Mandarin speakers picked up from the Manchu during the Qing dynasty, it has nothing to do with the meaning of 儿. So 颠儿 is a relatively new addition to the written language that is not shared with non-Mandarin varieties.