News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:07AM (#29495310)
I've owned multiple Android phones starting with the Nexus S, Nexus Galaxy, various Samsung and LG devices but I'll never forget my experience with the Nexus 5. After a poor experience with an LG phone, I decided enough was enough. I dropped a bunch of money for a brand new Nexus 5 on day 1 of release. I swore not to mess with the phone, (no root, no custom roms, nothing) because I was tired of unexpected surprises from my previous phones and just assumed that since I was not following the mainline it was my fault.

Well one day when prepping for a life changing trip across Europe, I received an upgrade to the latest Android. I just went ahead and updated and then went on the trip. Little did I know, there was a bug in the firmware such that all video recordings were put through some sort of audio filter. That bug essentially garbled all the audio of all video recordings. I only realized to my utter horror after getting back that all my videos were ruined. I couldn't believe that Google didn't properly test basic functionality and released this garbage update. During the trip my friend had an iPhone 5 and it continually lasted her through the day. Meanwhile my Nexus was running low after 1-2 hours screen on time. It was a constant headache that I never realized before because before this trip I always just took the phone to work where there would be a charger and then back home where there would be a charger. I never realized that real world battery life of this phone was utter garbage.

EDIT: I also want to add that I recall watching a bunch of reviews of this phone by the "tech vloggers" and I am dumbfounded as to how they praised this phone or only lightly criticize things like the battery life. I received a totally false impression of this phone before purchasing. This experience basically put me off of tech vloggers as well. I still watch them but only for a cursory view on a product I am already considering getting. Looking back at MKBHD and others after dropping this phone I am just disgusted that I felt like I was duped.

After I got back I was fuming for a while over what had happened. I asked about this on the Nexus5 and Android forums and was met with a lot of hostile responses when I complained about how badly Google messed this up. I just couldn't stop thinking about my friend's iPhone 5. I never bought an Apple product in my life because I was conditioned to believe that they are just lifestyle devices for dumb people with too much money. I took a risk and ordered a pre-owned iPhone 5S. WOW what a night and day difference. This phone lasted me another 4 years and caused me to fall in love with phones again. I never realized that I was unconsciously avoiding having to use my Nexus5. With the iPhone I looked forward to using it.

This was a gateway drug to me taking a chance on an Macbook. I really wanted to continue using a *nix based environment but I HATED the constant challenges with keeping my Ubuntu environment going and the the equally toxic Linux community (I bet the terrible Android community overlaps with Linux).

I took the risk on a Macbook and there was moment where I felt like my mind jettisoned some dead weight. I could finally just walk away from both communities and not have to depend on them when my system/phone messed up. I occasionally load the latest Ubuntu/Ubuntu MATE/Linux Mint on a spare PC, find that some serious bug either didn't get fixed or reintroduced and then put it aside for another year. I'm not sure how to explain this feeling but Apple has given me the freedom to "not" be a part of the Linux/Android ecosystem and that freedom is the most valuable thing they provide.

I always dread whenever Google pushes an update to any of their products. I try my best to use extensions to remove their web based updates but sometimes I don't have a choice for their web based products. They have pushed so much useless garbage onto me over the years that I utterly despise their engineering groups. The latest screwup is "Reading Lists". Like come on man, Bookmarks worked perfectly fine! They had to muck up bookmarks?! Now I am stuck setting a flag to disable it(and repeat every time Chrome updates or I switch computers).

I can't fathom how a company of Google's stature has such a poor design and QA culture. There must be a lot of grifters who have spent so much time trying to get through their tough interviews such that all they know well is how to pass those interviews but not actually how to make great products.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by chrisjc on Thursday December 09, 2021 @07:36AM (#29496661)
The Nexus 5 was probably the best (in an exciting, non-practical way) phone I ever owned.

However, I found myself in a similar situation as yourself with my Nexus 6P. Newlywed on a beautiful island all by ourselves ready to record some memories. 6P took phenomenal pictures and we were all ready with tripod and remote clicker. 6P just died. Luckily still had the wife's old iphone which managed to capture the moments, but not in all its glory.

Went through one more iteration of Android with a Motorola, that they stopped supporting about 3 months after buying.

As I've said in other posts, the amount of ewaste I generated while in the Android/Google ecosystem is criminal.

Switched to an iphone and haven't looked back. I'm still on the same iphone years later, still getting updates, still chugging along.

In all honesty, I preferred the Android OS, but it's too expensive to tolerate in so many ways; money, time (learning the new UX every time there's an update), environment/ewaste, privacy (google and affiliates vacuuming up all my personal information), convenience (it doesn't breakdown when i need it the most).

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @03:21PM (#29502429)
>As I've said in other posts, the amount of ewaste I generated while in the Android/Google ecosystem is criminal.

This is an unspoken downside of that ecosystem. I have also generated many phones worth of ewaste when I give up on them in less than a year. Its one of the reasons I stopped playing games with all these manufacturers and just bought an "official" Google phone and not touch it software wise. It obviously still wasn't enough.

I was recently cleaning through my attic and I found a lot of these old Android phones. Its amazing how many of them didn't get anywhere near the support that iPhones phones do. I told myself that I would eventually find a custom rom for them and then reuse them for something else but lets be real, that is just another time sink that probably won't happen. Now I am left staring at these phones wishing there was an easy way to deconstruct all the components into their base materials. I know that it is possible to break down the plastics via pyrolysis but no one is really doing this. Secondly there are the circuit board. FR-4 is ground up and used as filler from what I understand. What that means is that even if this phone is recycled, it will never really fully go away. Put in that context, the Android ecosystem just seems even sillier.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by zibzab on Thursday December 09, 2021 @08:55AM (#29497322)
This might sound odd but you should try a mid range Samsung next.

Much cheaper than pixel and iPhone and Samsung has a design language that many prefer to stock android and ios.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by chrisjc on Thursday December 09, 2021 @01:12PM (#29500866)
This is where I struggle to agree. Cheaper how? The way that I look at it is that the iphone is cheaper bc it's going to last 3-4x longer than the android phone. (3-4x less ewaste)

Moreover, when it comes eventually replacing the iphone, I'm going to get a better trade in value than the android even if it's 3-4x older. Thus lowering the cost of my next phone. (less ewaste bc i know the iphone will end up in someone else's pocket, not in a landfill)

Maybe Samsung is different, but when I went to trade in my $7-800 Motorola after 8-12 months of use, I was offered $28 trade-in value.

My time is also worth money. I don't have time (money) to waste on dealing with android.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by zibzab on Friday December 10, 2021 @06:52AM (#29508827)
This feels like a false narrative.

Samsungs provides 3-5 years of updates for current mid and high end phones. Does your iPhone last 5x4=20 years? Will it be worth much even in 5 years? But if you trade it only after one year, how does that in any way reduce ewaste?

When I got my current phone it was 1/3 of an iphone and 1/5 of the most expensive Samsung (the fold thingy). It works well and is guaranteed at least 3 years of updates. But I plan to use it as my daily driver for 2 years, maybe 2.5. After which I will probably keep it and use it for something else around the house.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by chrisjc on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:22AM (#29511694)
Like I said, I don't know if it was a Motorola thing and Samsung is different. Seems like that is the case since Samsung is considered the high-end option for android.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by easrng on Thursday December 09, 2021 @09:23AM (#29497613)
Samsung installs Facebook services you can't uninstall without using adb or rooting your phone and lots of other bloatware too.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by notyourday on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:25AM (#29510177)
> This might sound odd but you should try a mid range Samsung next.

I have zero interest in a f!cking OS pushing ads into my face.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by danuker on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:38AM (#29495475)
Maybe they're better, but Apple updates are not all sunshine and rainbows.

Apple fined for slowing down old iPhones - BBC News – https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by mavhc on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:55AM (#29495576)
But that was to stop them restarting because the battery wasn't powerful enough after being so old. Android phone makers barely remember they made a phone 3 days after they stop selling it
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by rekoil on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:16AM (#29495739)
They mucked up the delivery, but the feature that patch provided to the iPhone 6 and up is really great. It's just most people don't know enough about how electronics behave under unstable voltages that they only see the top layer of "Apple made my phone slow!", and ignore the fact that what Apple did was to ensure that the phone could continue working (albeit a little slower) even though its battery had degraded.

What they should have done is include the toggle from day one, clearly explained why the feature was built, and then presented users with a prompt to enable it if the phone detected it may be necessary. Shoving it down peoples throats just made for terrible optics and "planned obsolescence" was a very well fitting and easy explanation in the absence of the real one that few understood.

Like, people still talk about it like it was a bad thing, see this thread for evidence, and this is one of the places where I would expect to find one of the largest concentrations of people that do understand what that patch did and why it was necessary.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by daniel-cussen on Thursday December 09, 2021 @07:21AM (#29496543)
No, Apple got sued because they deserved to get sued. At no point did they do what courts determined would have been the right thing, which was to tell the user to get a new battery. And make 50% margins or what have you, that kind of profit, like what they get for their chargers, that would have been fine. They did not want to do that.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by rekoil on Thursday December 09, 2021 @09:23AM (#29497617)
I mean I'm just voicing my own opinion here, and I respect yours and even agree with you on some level. Apple has been charging through the nose for battery replacement for a long time, though at the time all this happened (or shortly after at least) they did have a very good battery replacement program, and they recently announced a new replacement parts program which hopefully ends up doing some good on that front, but we'll see.

Personally I think it's pretty great to know that I can use my iPhone even with a degraded battery and not have it shut down unexpectedly.

I've had both iPhones and Androids do that in the past, often in cold weather and during bursts of high load (like on a chairlift at a ski resort, which my example here is based on).

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by celsoazevedo on Thursday December 09, 2021 @12:17PM (#29500134)
Cheap battery replacements, the option to disable the "feature", etc, only happened after they were sued.

The idea was good, but it was implemented in a way that created issues for some users (eg: my iPhone 5 being sluggish all the time) and benefited Apple as most users would simply buy a new iPhone because no one knew what was going on.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by daniel-cussen on Friday December 10, 2021 @04:32PM (#29515706)
Yeah plus their geniuses, lol like every one of their entry level employees won a Nobel prize in order to become a sales clerk, were scripted into shunting customers to buying new iPhones. Oh oh the gadget is fucky? Hmm what could possibly motivate such a malfunction? Oh I did just so happen to witness one customer, very peculiar, the device was clearly rotten. Happens after one year. I'm afraid a new battery, which MAY SEEM AT FIRST GLANCE like the OBVIOUS SOLUTION, but COUNTERINTUITIVELY is not, will not work. You need a new battery, but as a part of a comprehensive unit, complete with a new CPU, a new screen, a new chassis, in short, a new thing of every part of this device. You need a new device.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by rekoil on Thursday December 09, 2021 @12:48PM (#29500567)
Yeah, my initial reply in this thread states as much. I agree wholeheartedly that they should have rolled it out differently.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by danuker on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @04:17AM (#29563657)
It's not just battery decay. It's also MORE software forced into the phone via updates, requiring more resources. You can't opt out of new features while getting the security fixes.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by logicalmonster on Thursday December 09, 2021 @11:07AM (#29499031)
> Apple fined for slowing down old iPhones

Apple messed up the explanations and messaging on that incident big-time, but I'm convinced that they made the correct engineering tradeoff, and I feel like not enough people (even techies) really understood and appreciated that.

As this thread illustrates, a phone is a life-saving device. The priority must be to function when you absolutely need it. You will literally die if you can't call for help when you're stuck in a blizzard and need to call for a rescue.

Apple slowing down phones with weak batteries so that the CPU always has enough juice and doesn't crash is 100% the right engineering tradeoff for a life-saving device.

The last thing you need when you're bleeding out on the kitchen floor and dialing 911 is for your battery to not supply enough power and then force a phone restart or worse when seconds are counting down.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by xvector on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:59AM (#29495601)
This is working as intended. Imagine your phone restarting during a 911 call. It was 100% the correct decision.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by celsoazevedo on Thursday December 09, 2021 @12:03PM (#29499919)
The idea was good, but the implementation was terrible. It slowed down some phones a lot (my iPhone 5 was always lagging), there was no information about the feature, no setting to disable it, etc.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:01AM (#29495624)
I actually started to hit this problem on my iPhone 5S. Not the slow down but the original issue that caused Apple to slow down phones. Old batteries that were really degraded would cause the phones to just die and shut off when the CPU had a spike in usage. I'm sure thats not great for the file system when that keeps happening. However it must be noted that it only started to occur after the phone was 5 years old and the battery had dropped to about 50% of its original design capacity. In fact this was one the reasons I eventually upgraded the phone...that plus I got a new job so it was time to finally upgrade the iPhone 5S to something better (a 1st gen iPhone SE ha ha). I could have just replaced the battery and continued using the 5S for another 1-2 years (as it had 1-2 more years of software updates from what I recall).
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by notinty on Thursday December 09, 2021 @06:06AM (#29496087)
The 5s has been given security patches for iOS 12, the last being September 23rd.

That's 8 years of support if it's the last. It was the first 64-bit ARM phone, and the first to have a Secure Enclave, so it might be a bit of a favourite child.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by stinos on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:45AM (#29495517)
prepping for a life changing trip across Europe,

Not sure what you mean with life changing, but from experience: if you ever find yourself in a situation where you go on a trip and your health might depend on the ability to call or navigate, don't ever use a smartphone for that ability :)

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:57AM (#29495587)
No, it was a life changing trip in the sense that I made so many memories and redefined the direction I wanted my life to take. Not physically in the sense of health being damaged.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by BrandoElFollito on Thursday December 09, 2021 @06:11AM (#29496129)
Out of sheer curiosity, would you mind sharing in a few words what was so life changing? (I am French and curious what you found great over here :))
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @03:39PM (#29502609)
First of all, I love you French people. Paris has a reputation for being cold and hostile to outsiders but it is not true at all for me. I've met so many wonderful people there that I still keep in touch with. Walking around the streets of Montmarte at 3AM with my friend just somehow helped reset the mind. It was life changing because I was stuck in a dead end job not even in the career I studied for. I was a CS major but ended up in tech support and then software QA. It was a really depressing time for me and my friend who was also going through the same issues as she was an Engineering grad but ended up in marketing. It was also this feeling of no real goals in life. Just traveling, meeting people with different lifestyles and breaking that chain of daily driving 1+ hour to a terrible underpaid job helped to reimagine what was possible.

Also got to do a lot of deep thinking while traveling across Europe. Wish they were more united. There are so many unbelievably talented people in Europe. It would be interesting if they could compete head on with the US and help to keep us more on our toes sort of like a second super power. I think that would be good for the world. Alas I saw how things like this are just not possible because people do not believe in it. The same problem I had before I came to Europe! Its unfortunate because Europe has all the components to be just as competitive as the US (in my opinion). :)

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by xvector on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:58AM (#29495595)
What a weird response. Modern smartphones are absolutely valid lifelines. You might as well tell travelers to leave their money behind because they should be able to build their own shelter.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by stinos on Thursday December 09, 2021 @11:19AM (#29499215)
Hmm, I see what I mean wasn't super clear. Of course they are valid lifelines as long as they work. My point was about that working condition though; think battery charge not being exceptional, seems to drop dead easier than when dropiing a brick phone. Then again maybe I just had bad luck.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by xvector on Friday December 10, 2021 @07:09PM (#29517064)
IMO that's why people pay good money for good smartphones, and travel with battery packs etc. They're essential to our day to day lives.
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by mikysco on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:00AM (#29495615)
Sure maybe circa 2010 but Apple’s latest & greatest will get you through hell and back, let alone a simple trip through Europe
Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by cvak on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:36AM (#29495462)
Just a small snarky comment, funny you were done with your LG phone, and bought another LG phone :).

I actually enjoyed nexus 5, nice form factor, awesome weight.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:07AM (#29495665)
Honestly my thinking was that this was a "Google" phone and it was advertised as such. All the software came from Google...or so I thought. Turns out as with everything from this trash company(Google), I was duped. The bug was eventually traced to a fault in the way the Qualcomm driver handled mixing and I guess they introduced a regression in the firmware. Yeah...I was super pissed so I looked into where the failure was occurring. I seem to also recall which file in the Android source was causing the problem. All they had to do was record a video and play it back! They obviously do not do real QA testing on each firmware release. Or maybe they automated it(like they do with all their crap) and their test rig missed this bug.

It was eventually fixed in subsequent firmware releases(while other things broke). After getting the iPhone as my daily driver, I opened up and started using the Nexus 5 as a tinkering testbed for custom roms. The smoothest firmware I have seen was a Cyanogen Mod release in late 2015 although it still had rough edges compared to my iPhone from what I recall.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by rekoil on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:45AM (#29495962)
My history with smartphones goes:

Original iPhone (2007), iPhone 3GS (2009), iPhone 4S (2011), HTC One X (2011, not because the iPhone broke, a friend convinced me I should try Android, and on paper it seemed like I would love that so why not?), Samsung Galaxy S3 LTE (2012), Sony Xperia Z (2013), Sony Xperia Z1 Compact (also 2013), (LG) Google Nexus 5X (2015), iPhone SE (2016), iPhone X (2018), iPhone 12 mini (2020).

I actually knew I was done with Android by the time my Z1 Compact broke in the same way it had already been repaired for once (small crack in the display glass which the digitiser was glued to meaning touch stopped working on one side of the crack, unfortunately about 90% of the screen), but I figured maybe I've just been buying the wrong brands and figured I should give Google, the premium brand, a chance before I went back to iPhones for good.

Alas, the Nexus 5X was so bad (laggy, terrible battery life) I actually went back to my iPhone 4S (which I had also been using between the Z1 Compact and the 5X) within the first year, and then bought the iPhone SE when it came out and never looked back. That iPhone SE actually went to my little brother when I bought the iPhone X, and he stopped using it in 2020 after the screen finally cracked (still usable because Apple doesn't glue the digitiser to the display glass like many Android manufacturers do, a practice I personally think is to force repairs since it becomes impossible to use them without a repair).

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by fendy3002 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:28AM (#29495821)
IT 101, if you can't afford it being broken, don't update until you can.

I always prepare the possibility of fresh install / factory reset when upgrading.

Which is why google play's auto update when I'm outside made me angry.

Re:Pixel prevented me from calling 911 by nebula8804 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @03:44PM (#29502676)
That behavior only occurs when you learn to distrust your device enough that you learn that lesson. In IT you learn it when an update borks your production. In Phones you shouldn't have to learn it. Yes it is a computing device but it should be built like an appliance that does not need to be rolled back. Thats where the disconnect between Android and iOS is. Sounds like you haven't given iOS an honest look. (As in actually owning a device and using it in real world usage for a while).