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Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by fossuser on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:14PM (#29490604)
I think these things have a corrupting influence on the principles of the company over time: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html

It's better to figure out an exit (imo) than continue to capitulate on these kinds of things, particularly in a country that is hostile to foreign companies and IP (and particularly if one of your company values is the privacy of your users).

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>>Peter Thiel: Well I think, again those aren’t the only two possibilities, I don’t think they created very much, I think a lot of it was just handed over from the west so it wasn’t even stolen.

You know, I criticized Google a few years ago for refusing to work on its AI technology on Project Maven with the U.S. military, but working with Chinese universities and Chinese researchers. And since everything in China is a civilian- military fusion, Google was effectively working with the Chinese military, not with the American military. And there was sort of this question, “Why Google was doing this?” And one of the things that I was sort of told by some of the insiders at Google was they figured they might as well give the technology out through the front door, because if they didn’t give it – it would get stolen anyway.

>>Peter Thiel: I had a set of conversations with some of the Google people in the deep mind AI technology, “is your AI being used to run the concentration camps in Xinjiang?” and “Well, We don’t know and don’t ask any questions.” You have this almost magical thinking that by pretending that everything is fine, that’s how you engage and have a conversation. And you make the world better. And it’s some combination of wishful thinking. It’s useful idiots, you know, it’s CCP fifth columnist collaborators. So it’s some super position of all these things. But I think if you think of it ideologically or in terms of human rights or something like that, I’m tempted to say it’s just profoundly racist. It’s like saying that because they look different, they’re not white people, they don’t have the same rights. It’s something super wrong. But I don’t quite know how you unlock that.

https://nixonseminar.com/2021/04/the-nixon-seminar-april-6-2...

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by kelnos on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:51PM (#29491008)
Not disagreeing with what Thiel is saying here, but it's pretty hypocritical for him to be criticizing here considering he's the co-founder of Palantir, a company that feeds some tasty tasty morsels to the surveillance state and military-industrial complex.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:07PM (#29491184)
Pointing out someone else's hypocrisy isn't an inconsistency. If someone says doing business with a military is unacceptable and then proceeds to do business with a military, they're a hypocrite. That's still true even if the person telling you this does business with a military.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by Eelongate on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:02PM (#29491719)
> "If someone says doing business with a military is unacceptable"

Thiel hasn't even done that. His position seems to be that American companies should work with the US Military, but shouldn't work with the Chinese military. Such a position is certainly partisan, but it isn't hypocritical.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by smithza on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:59PM (#29492235)
> Such a position is certainly partisan

Try patriotic, or more cynically nationalistic.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by Eelongate on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @07:02PM (#29492262)
Partisan fits. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/partisan

1. An adherent to a party or faction. 2. A fervent, sometimes militant, supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.

Maybe that word isn't judgemental enough for you, but it fits and I used it carefully.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by robotresearcher on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @09:00PM (#29492948)
Both of these are instances of partisanship.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by CountSessine on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:18PM (#29491861)
Is it hypocritical to work with the US military, and not the Chinese military?
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:28PM (#29491957)
Is your justification for not working with the Chinese military that working with a military is unacceptable?
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by CountSessine on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:43PM (#29492082)
Clearly it isn't Peter Thiel's justification. So kelnos is wrong in calling this hypocrisy.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by brandall10 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:59PM (#29491097)
It seems he's drawing a distinction at domestic vs. foreign actors. The criticism at Google here is against working to enable the US military vs. what is a thin veil of enabling the Chinese military hiding behind a veil.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by fossuser on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:05PM (#29491165)
It’s also about a defense of the west and western liberalism over China and the CCP authoritarianism.

It’s Google leadership capitulating to the (imo naive) politics of its workforce to not work with the USG, while continuing to support the governments of adversaries (because largely American politics ignores the plight of people in places like KSA and China under a weak kind of moral relativism).

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by philwelch on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:51PM (#29491610)
It’s only hypocritical if you find the American and Chinese governments morally equivalent.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by notJim on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @07:16PM (#29492349)
He's not opposed to the surveillance state or military-industrial complex (in fact, he's in favor of them in the US), he's opposed to China's government.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by simonh on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:57PM (#29491673)
Thiel seems to genuinely believe the USA, and the west in general, is in an existential struggle with forces intent on destroying it. I can’t speak for him, but maybe Islamic fundamentalists, authoritarian autocracies like Russia, Chinese communism, etc.

If you genuinely believe that, then putting ever more powerful intelligence gathering tools in the hands of western governments, even at some risk of threats to freedoms in the west, might seem reasonable.

That’s especially true if you have good confidence in the checks and balances in the free west to prevent the worst abuses of such tools, and that the threats are truly dire.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by fossuser on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:21PM (#29491898)
Yes - Palantir was born out of 9/11. The idea being that US institutions need software that actually works and has tight controls around PCL.

Otherwise more attacks will happen and the reflexive response will be an increase in authoritarianism at the expense of western ideals.

I don’t personally agree with his support of trump (I see it as a partisan blind spot because of his Cato institute Republican identity) to me trump increases authoritarian risk in the US. Otherwise I agree with a lot of Thiel’s positions, even where I disagree it’s rare that his position is not thoughtful.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by mschuster91 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:16PM (#29491847)
> Thiel seems to genuinely believe the USA, and the west in general, is in an existential struggle with forces intent on destroying it.

As much as I dislike Thiel, he does have a point there: Russia is actively funding misinformation campaigns with the aim of splintering Europe (e.g. by funding far-right political parties like the AfD in Germany or the Brexiteers in the UK), and China is a threat on a geo-political level (New Belt Road) as well as a military threat (e.g. Taiwan), not to mention their Third Reich-inspired genocide against the Uyghurs and Tibetans.

The world is in a "war of cultures" indeed - the remnants of the Western democracies versus strong authoritarian governments. And we haven't found a way to counter Russian or Chinese political ambitions yet.

> That’s especially true if you have good confidence in the checks and balances in the free west to prevent the worst abuses of such tools, and that the threats are truly dire.

Under normal circumstances, that confidence would be valid. Unfortunately, we have our own actors who have an interest in tearing down these "checks and balances" for their own gains (e.g. the Republicans systematically destroying trust in public institutions, from elections to the integrity of the FBI, or Poland and Hungary where the rulers want to stay in power and enrich themselves and their friends)... which means we as Western nations are in a "lose-lose" situation. We can't combat propaganda effectively for a variety of reasons, and as a result of that the propaganda tears down our societies.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by microtherion on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:20PM (#29491888)
> Thiel seems to genuinely believe the USA, and the west in general, is in an existential struggle with forces intent on destroying it. I can’t speak for him, but maybe Islamic fundamentalists, authoritarian autocracies like Russia, Chinese communism, etc.

I believe such a struggle exists as well. But I have my doubts whether one would find him fighting AGAINST the authoritarians.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by xyzzyz on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:18PM (#29491867)
It is no more hypocritical than US government supporting US military, and opposing Chinese military. Thiel is just on team USA, that’s all.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by SyzygistSix on Thursday December 09, 2021 @09:15AM (#29497538)
He's not against national and state power; rumors or accusations of him being a libertarian are greatly exaggerated, for sure.

He's just pro-Western civilization and pro-US.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by fossuser on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:56PM (#29491068)
I can’t go into it, but this is a misunderstanding of what Palantir does.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by wolverine876 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:16PM (#29491257)
I can't go into it, but ...