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Re:Why don't you accept donations? by snarf21 on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:26PM (#29464378)
I've done a similar thing with a few past employers after I've moved on. "Hey, can you explain this code to the new person?". In some cases, I'd be glad to do a 1 hour call or whatever. They frequently ask me to submit a bill for my time and I always refuse. I don't want to turn into some kind of staff augmentation and be at their beck and call "because they are paying". Way better to think of it as a gift and I get to decide the rules.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by version_five on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:51PM (#29466769)
I generally would do the same thing. I'm amazed at all the hostility towards this. And most importantly, it doesn't read to me like you're being taken for a ride. Much better to help if you want, dictate your terms, generate good will and maintain the relationship etc than get a few hundred dollars, unless you're actually trying to make a living that way. Even from a purely selfish perspective, long term you're approach will serve you much better than trying to be transactional about ever interaction you have. And obviously you could always just say no if you didn't want to do it.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by snarf21 on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:57PM (#29467905)
Exactly, I've never spent more than 5 hours on a previous company doing this. However, it allows me to not burn bridges and one of the reasons it never goes beyond 5 hours is that this approach doesn't lead to a situation where I am "working for them".
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by ghufran_syed on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:27PM (#29466528)
sounds more like you are uncomfortable billing your market value, like most of us - you should charge at least a day’s worth of your old (or current) salary for one hour of this kind of on-demand work. If they don’t want to pay, that’s great, it means it really wasn’t that important after all…
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by munificent on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:57PM (#29466834)
No, there is real psychological research behind this.

If you charge people for something, it kicks their perception of the act into a different category. That in turn effects how they think about the interaction and what their sense of entitlement and expectations are in ways that can be counter-intuitive.

A famous related study is: https://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-wha...

They found that when daycares fined parents for picking up their kids late, the result was parents picking them up even later. Because, without the fine, parents treated the pick-up time as a moral/social obligation that they did not want to uphold. Once the fine was introduced, they treated this as a simple financial transaction where if it's worth it to pay the extra to pick them up later, why not?

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by Dylan16807 on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:06PM (#29467519)
What you're skipping is that it was a tiny fine. $3 per incident! Small amounts of money can be really distorting that way. Paying a full day's salary for the consultation is not the same, and it's pretty likely it would increase the company's respect of their time.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by owenversteeg on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @08:32AM (#29472240)
Sure, it was a small fine (NIS 10 per incident per child) but keep in mind:

- Israel has the highest fertility rate in the developed world (3.1 children per mother on average)

- The average gross monthly salary at the time of the study was NIS 5,595

- If the average parent comes late 4 times a month, that's 4 * 3.1 * 10 = NIS 124 = 2.2% of their monthly salary, or the majority of an entire day's pay (!) - that's not nothing.

That said, there are two interesting conclusions from the paper. Firstly, the well known one:

> Parents may have interpreted the action of the teachers in the first period as a generous, nonmarket activity. They may have thought: "The contract with the day-care center only covers the period until four in the afternoon. After that time, the teacher is just a nice and generous person. I should not take advantage of her patience." The introduction of the fine changes the perception into the following: "The teacher is taking care of the child in much the same way as she did earlier in the day. In fact this activity has a price (which is called a ‘fine’). Therefore, I can buy this service as much as needed."

But there's also this:

> The behavior in the third period, however, is still difficult to explain. Now the first social norm would predict a low level of delay. We may think that a period of 4 weeks is not sufficient to bring the behavior back to the appropriate level. But considering that 2 or 3 weeks had been enough to double the level of delays after the introduction of the fine, we should estimate that the learning rate of the parents is too fast to justify so much inertia. Perhaps a third social norm is needed: "Once a commodity, always a commodity." This norm and second clause of the first norm explain the behavior in the final period: a commodity at zero price is bought in large quantities. Overall, three norms seem necessary to explain three facts.

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by munificent on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:17PM (#29467597)
It's hard to know how the company would respond, or what the ideal charge would be.

What I do know is that I completely respect snarf21's choice to either charge or not as they see fit.

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by omginternets on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:10PM (#29468411)
I think this has more to do with the fact that not everything has to be a market all the time.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by Epiphany21 on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @04:41AM (#29470636)
This is my thinking as well. Sometimes cooperation makes life easier in the long run than competition. Since I help my coworkers without asking for anything in return they do the same for me when I'm stuck. That way nobody is afraid to ask for help, nobody is left behind on deadlines and we all get decent performance reviews.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by cheeseomlit on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:58PM (#29464777)
That just sounds like you're being taken for a ride
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by Levitz on Monday December 06, 2021 @03:45PM (#29465441)
I do a similar thing when a friend asks me a favor that is going to take enough of my time, think the classic "Can you help me build my PC?" or "Something has happened to my computer! Can you fix it?"

If I'm helping then I refuse any kind of money. I don't give guarantees or service like a business does, I don't want money like a business does. I do often ask that they try to learn from the experience, I'll gladly explain everything I'm doing.

The other option is I refuse, for whatever reason that is.

This keeps my choices those of a friend and my responsibilities those of a friend. I like keeping them that way.

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by _carbyau_ on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:12PM (#29468018)
Close family I will do whatever.

Anyone else I am happy to sit right next to them, happy chat and advise, be a pair of extra hands as required.

But I won't sit there while they walk away and do anything else.

If it isn't worth THEIR time to fix it, it isn't worth mine.

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by TimWolla on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:39PM (#29466649)
I am not taking raw money with friends either. But when it's assistance I can't offer virtually, i.e. when I need to drive to them in person, then I expect them to order pizza to eat together in return after the job's done. It brings the point across that my time's not free, but it's not as unpersonal as handing over a Euro bill. One can also have a nice chat while eating.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by Phenomenit on Monday December 06, 2021 @04:09PM (#29465749)
I'm with you on this but my question is, what happens if you brake your friends stuff? Like expensive components?
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by squeaky-clean on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:04PM (#29466301)
Not the original person you asked but I do the same thing and I would buy them a new one if I damage it. I'm confident that I'm not going to damage their things.

And if it's something where I'm not confident, or its not replaceable / way too expensive, that's when I'll decline. But typical computer repair or building is really easy and safe. Need help delidding your CPU or some other uncommon thing? I'll give advice but I'm not handling it.

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by one_off_comment on Monday December 06, 2021 @03:08PM (#29464918)
It's a personal choice. I respect their choice.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by BEEdwards on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:14PM (#29466402)
Working for free devalues the work of others and give them an excuse to not even offer pay next time.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by JaimeThompson on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:45PM (#29467806)
There is nothing wrong with being nice to others.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by one_off_comment on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @11:38AM (#29474635)
They'll get a rude awakening and realize OP is being nice and that's not standard operating procedure.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by circlefavshape on Monday December 06, 2021 @04:53PM (#29466194)
Nope. It's relationship maintenance. I've often done the same - totally worth an hour here or there
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by quickthrower2 on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @04:12AM (#29470470)
There’s a lot of debate on this. So here is my spin. Charge them $1000 to not turn up. Why? Because by not turning up they get used to figuring it out without you which is long term more valuable for resilience and beneficial to them.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by jyap on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:53PM (#29464709)
Doing free labor is devaluing your work.

You are free to decline this work.

Re:Why don't you accept donations? by vorpalhex on Monday December 06, 2021 @03:04PM (#29464860)
There's a difference in doing someone a small polite favor and doing unpaid labor. I definitely have previous employers to whom I'd give an hour of my time to sort out a quick issue, and for a lone hour it is not worth generating an invoice and dealing with taxes. At most I might accept a meal or a pint.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by tut-urut-utut on Monday December 06, 2021 @03:05PM (#29464872)
In my books doing a favour to the old coworker is much more worth than writing an invoice for one hour of “consulting”. They’ll be grateful and owe you a favour.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by exhilaration on Monday December 06, 2021 @04:53PM (#29466196)
I totally agree. I'm sure there's a significant number of us that have landed wonderful, well-paid jobs thanks to former co-workers. That's totally worth a few hours of unpaid support for a former employer.
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by circlefavshape on Monday December 06, 2021 @04:56PM (#29466223)
There's a difference between getting exploited and making a deposit in the favour bank
Re:Why don't you accept donations? by bsder on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:09PM (#29466335)
It may also cost you your current job if you take money.

Most employment contracts have stipulations about working for competitors. They're rarely enforced, but you can sometimes get caught out if something goes pear-shaped.

If you haven't taken any money, it's a lot harder to hang this on you.