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Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by DeathArrow on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:24AM (#29458059)
Instead of arguing how bad WhatsApp is in terms of privacy, people would be better off by switching to more privacy respecting alternatives such as Telegram or Signal.

I know it's hard to switch if most of your friends are on WhatsApp, but you can talk to them and switch together.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by m000 on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:37AM (#29458966)
I had started peddling Signal to my family members. Then Signal shot themselves in the foot by killing the SMS import functionality. SMS integration was the killer feature of Signal for bringing more people on board and get to a critical mass of users, where uninstalling WhatsApp would be a a viable option.

It seems that you can still get the SMS import by first installing an old version that supported it and then upgrading (see [1]). But obviously this is only an option for techies, not moms and pops.

[1] https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/8887#issu...

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by BLKNSLVR on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:14PM (#29468031)
I don't understand normal peoples obsession with keeping their old SMS messages. I get that there are some cherished memories from loved ones living or passed, but, take a screenshot to be saved to the 'cloud'. And I'm even text-heavy when it comes to communication, but there are no conversations I have over SMS that are worth "re-living the moment" (in my experience). I've got Signal configured to delete any messages older than 3 months. Long-term important information isn't for SMS.

I asked my son's friends if they had each other's phone numbers in case the 'party' got split up and needed to arrange to meet at a time/landmark. They pretty much all said "we've got each others insta". Today's yoof don't SMS, so SMS integration has a decreasing lifespan.

People's lives are so busy (I know this because that's what everyone says), who's scrolling back through their SMS conversations, and why?

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by tester89 on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @07:18PM (#29479934)
Well not SMS, but I am scrolling through my conversations. It’s odd, but I enjoy reliving them.
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by InsomniacL on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:21AM (#29458363)
> people would be better off by switching

In the UK, everybody uses Whatsapp, from friends and family to businesses.

That won't change until communication platforms are forced to make their products interoperable with each other. I can't use anything else because nobody else does, I would not even be able to book my Dog in to the Groomers because they won't answer the phone and only respond to Whatsapp.

E2E encryption can protect contents in transit with TOS for communication platforms to join the Multi-provider network stating they cannot analyse the contents of received messages in-app.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by Angostura on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:01AM (#29458679)
> That won't change until

... you ask people to use an alternative. I got my entire family on to Signal about a year ago. I keep asking the BBC not to use WhatsApp. We'll see.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by Naracion on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:58AM (#29461304)
>would not even be able to book my Dog in to the Groomers because they won't answer the phone and only respond to Whatsapp.

Good luck getting businesses to move away from Whatsapp. I deleted my account and was able to get friends and family on Signal, but thankfully I don't have any businesses I interacted with that used Whatsapp (or Facebook). I might be missing out on products and services... But hey, at least I don't know what I'm missing. :)

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by sneak on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:53AM (#29458197)
Telegram is not end to end encrypted, and thus does not preserve privacy at all.

The best way to get your friends to switch messengers is to not be reachable on the bad ones: ie delete your accounts and uninstall the apps.

Retaining your account on bad platforms makes those platforms more attractive to other users and makes the world worse.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by johannes1234321 on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:09AM (#29458277)
This works for some. However if the sports club of your kid uses WhatsApp to announce training times etc. your kid might miss information etc.

Even niftier: In some countries Facebook created this "FreeBasics/internet.org" scheme where access to Facebook services is free. When travelling Indonesia WhatsApp was the only way to reach the landlords of guest apartments, taxi drivers, ... not even regular SMS/text.

The strength of the network effect can be hard to break.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by sneak on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:14PM (#29462511)
Tell the people in the sports club that you don't have WhatsApp and that it's rude to force parents to do business with Facebook just for their kids to play sports.

When you cave and install WA, you make it harder for the next parent, just as all the ones before you made it harder for you.

If you want to be rid of these things, you can't get there by using them because you think you have to.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by sidr on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:58PM (#29463203)
The people in the sports club will roll their eyes at you because [they think] you are a tin-foil hat wearing lunacy who is paranoid about surveillance from the boogeyman. They will refuse to switch their mode of communication that works for them and everyone else for one person (you) who is just causing trouble for no reason.

The vast majority of people don't think Facebook is the abhorrent service it is, and an even larger majority don't realize WA is owned by Facebook.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by sneak on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @10:13AM (#29473272)
> The people in the sports club will roll their eyes at you because [they think] you are a tin-foil hat wearing lunacy who is paranoid about surveillance from the boogeyman.

That's not true. A lot of people are a lot more concerned about their privacy these days.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by lobocinza on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:29AM (#29458420)
I reply to people on Telegram when they message me on Whatsapp if they happen to have a Telegram account.
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by thelittleone on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:18AM (#29458809)
That would make a cool bot. Followed by block them on Whatsapp. One by one no more whatsapp.
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by kome on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:21AM (#29458358)
Telegram, encrypted or not, is safer just because it's not Facebook. Facebook is a privacy black-hole. And whatsapp "encryption" by now it's just a marketing ploy - smartphones can't be trusted for anything privacy related.
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by dijit on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:11AM (#29458748)
If both ends and the server are all controlled by the same entity: it largely doesn't matter if it's E2EE or not.

You can obviously argue that they can't siphon away information at the server level; but if you don't trust whatsapp/signal/telegram at that level then you're boned anyway because they could quite easily activate the 'whatsapp web' function and exfiltrate information via whatsapp servers.

Ideally we'd have clients and servers and server operators as distinct and uncoordinated individuals, which would have to work in conjunction with each other to unravel your messages: but there's no incentive for them in place to do that.

I, a server operator, can pass encrypted traffic, that data is encrypted with clients I don't/can't control.

I, a client software developer can make encrypted traffic, but messages can only be passed on networks I can't control. (and if it didn't, this would be easy to spot).

I, a server software developer can write software which allows traffic to be passed but does not promote an operator to exfil even encrypted data.

We have this with Matrix, IRC, XMPP etc;

IMO if you're going to use Whatsapp; it's the same as if you use telegram or signal; I understand that this opinion is controversial but you're choosing convinience over security and E2E doesn't mean anything if you have one entity controlling the ends.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by tommit on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:55AM (#29461254)
> IMO if you're going to use Whatsapp; it's the same as if you use telegram or signal; I understand that this opinion is controversial but you're choosing convinience over security and E2E doesn't mean anything if you have one entity controlling the ends.

E2EE is not the main concern any more for most though. Most messengers offer some form of it, and you're correct in saying it probably won't prevent the company from accessing your data. However, I think the point is about which company to trust with this sort of power. Actually, it's more like "which company is least likely to do [bad stuff] with my data?"

Currently, facebook is much higher on that list than the signal foundation -- at least in my book.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by theshrike79 on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:08AM (#29458271)
Yes, it's not E2EE by default and can't encrypt group chats.

But it has a native bot API and can handle multiple clients on multiple different devices without any issue.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by jandorn on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:28AM (#29461737)
WhatsApp is end to end encrypted, but its owned by Facebook who can’t be trusted so it does not preserve privacy at all.
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by thathndude on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:18AM (#29458334)
I’m all for competition, but if I could waive a magic wand and move the world to signal, I’d do it.

It’s not perfect, but it’s a cross-platform, free, secure, open-source communications platform. I’ll take it for now.

Given that WhatsApp uses the Signal tech (largely). I’m always surprised that what’s app still reigns supreme.

Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by swiley on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:14AM (#29459309)
Whatsapp is just signal 10 years from now, I'd rather move the world to something not controlled by one company like XMPP.
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by moring on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:32AM (#29458090)
Back when ICQ was a thing, alternatives like Pidgin encouraged switching by connecting to the existing ICQ network. I understand that in the case of WhatsApp, connecting to the existing network means that FB still gets hold of your data so there is no improvement in terms of privacy (at first), but it is still a step forward if convincing your friends to all switch at once is not an option (which is impossible -- your friends have friends that are not your friends, so the whole world would have to switch at once).
Re:WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to sh... by minusSeven on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:43AM (#29459610)
In India all business communications are moving to WhatsApp because everyone uses it. Even if you switch to other platforms you will be forced to use WhatsApp for business communications.