Why must you laugh at my back end?

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by pud on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @02:30PM (#2942613)

Paraphrased:

> Some people write crappy code in CFML.

Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too. There's nothing inherent in CFML that forces people to write bad or hard-to-understand code.

> OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES???

view source

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by ary on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @02:38PM (#2942657)

I stand by my comment. A few things to note.

  > Some people write crappy code in CFML.
  Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too.

No, I said CFML code is universally hard to understand. Even more so for people already familiar with more popular languages.

  > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES???
  view source.

That example was given to make a point about dated skill sets. I didn't imply that your Tumblr blog was table based.

Edit:

To InnocentB's point about HN's HTML. Does anyone here think HN's markup is meant at all to be inspirational? My take has always been that pg has priorities, and a layout for HN firmly based on cleaner HTML & CSS isn't high on that list.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by beernutz on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:28PM (#2942879)

CFML is NOT universally hard to understand. I have been programming over 25 years, and use/have used all kinds of languages. CFML is just another tool.

If you don't like tag based language, you can use pure scripting in CFML pages. Also, nothing in CFML requires or even leads ANYONE to use table based layout. I don't know where you got that idea from.

When i first looked at CFML I had distaste for what i saw. The problem is, what i saw was other peoples bad code. Once i really dove in and started writing CFML myself, i found it is like any other language in that, you can write beautiful, clean, easy to understand and modify code.

CFML has a LOT of things built into it that make db backed web development VERY nice, including:

Db queries and transactions as a first class language member. Pdf generation, ftp access, email sending, graphing, ALL are first class language features, not to mention native use of java libraries.

Don't get me wrong, i see the value in frameworks like ROR. I just think CFML gets a bad rep when it does not deserve it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by justincormack on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @04:33PM (#2943129)

Sorry, you do not understand the meaning of "first class". You mean "included in the standard library". First class is as in first class functions, ie you can assign them to variables.

And for a second I was excited by first class transactions.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by beernutz on Thursday September 01, 2011 @05:31PM (#2951863)

Yes, you are of course correct. I was using the term to mean "built in and part of the language"

Thanks for the correction!

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by bobstobener on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:58PM (#2942992)

CFML has great frameworks as well. One of many ... https://github.com/seancorfield/fw1/wiki

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by Zak on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @08:17PM (#2943740)

PG has addressed the issue of HN's markup several times. One of the major advantages of CSS, that sitewide changes can be made in one place doesn't really apply to HN. All the HTML is generated by Arc code which is written in a reasonably DRY style; major changes can be made in a central place.

I like modern markup and layout better than the way things used to be just like almost everyone else, but It's hard to come up with an argument for switching HN to more modern markup. It wouldn't make the site easier for PG to maintain, and it probably wouldn't result in a change to the visual design unless a designer was brought in.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by InnocentB on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @02:40PM (#2942663)

I think he's referring to Hacker News, which is table-based.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by seabee on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @02:50PM (#2942708)

to be fair, HN has had the same design for years...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by kemiller on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @02:51PM (#2942711)

I read pud's comments as essentially the same thing: he has better things to worry about.

However. A lot of the leeway in technology choice you might have as a lone-wolf entrepreneur fly out the window once you grow beyond that. If you have no intention of growing beyond, go nuts. Use whatever makes you happy. If you do want to grow more, then be prepared for a rewrite.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by snow_mac on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @10:33PM (#2943993)

Not if you're the guy cutting the checks.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by kemiller on Wednesday August 31, 2011 @01:14PM (#2946487)

I'm not sure what that's in response to.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by snow_mac on Thursday September 01, 2011 @01:28AM (#2948786)

Into: " If you do want to grow more, then be prepared for a rewrite." ... If you're the dude cutting the checks & you think it's well designed, you don't have to redesign just because your dev gets pissy.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by sfk on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:03PM (#2942767)

Does anyone here think HN's markup is meant at all to be inspirational?

Yes, it's one of the most usable and beautiful sites on Internet.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by ary on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:58PM (#2942995)

Markup, not layout.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by snow_mac on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @10:31PM (#2943990)

Whats so hard to understand the difference between <form> and <cfform>? Everything cold fusion related starts with a <cf... <cfif> If you don't like it, you can also use a <cfscript> tag:

<cfscript> if(noob) { greetings = "Hello Coldfusion N00b"; } </cfscript>

<cfoutput>#greetings#</cfoutput>

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by olliesaunders on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:48PM (#2942961)

If you’re not quoting directly don’t use >. At best it’s misleading at worst it’s dishonest.

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Re:Why must you laugh at my back end? by pyninja on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @02:44PM (#2942682)

> view source

Are you trying to tell me that PG is not a web designer?!

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