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Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by throwawaysea on Thursday December 02, 2021 @05:42PM (#29423850)
It's a tyranny of the majority: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

I simply don't understand why one person needs to undergo a medical procedure to enable someone else to experience the safe conditions they want. These vaccines don't even grant immunity in the traditional sense (see CDC's revision of definitions here) - all the vaccines do is move things from one nonzero probability of risk to another nonzero probability of risk. If people are SO worried about their health, they need to behave honestly and either quarantine themselves or wear a full body protective hazmat suit everywhere. But requiring others to get a vaccine to attain some arbitrary risk ratio just doesn't make sense.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by Pyramus on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:00PM (#29424071)
Admittedly, it's not a great example, but maybe it can facilitate understanding a bit?

Why do we take away the right to drive a car (free movement) from those who are intoxicated? All that banning of drunk driving does is it slightly decreases a nonzero probability of risk. The risk to be hurt by an intoxicated driver is very low, and the risk to die is even lower. If people are really concerned about street safety, and traffic is inherently dangerous as it is, they should just stay at home.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by jseban on Thursday December 02, 2021 @05:53PM (#29423981)
> I simply don't understand why one person needs to undergo a medical procedure to enable someone else to experience the safe conditions they want.

Me neither, I think it's completely unreasonable.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by rbanffy on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:04PM (#29424134)
I think it’s completely unreasonable that people complain about an explosives factory next to a school. The risk of explosion is very low and the economic impact on the company would be devastating. Why do people think their right to be a little more safer trumps the right to manufacture high explosives?
Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by jseban on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:21PM (#29424376)
I don't see how that's an accurate comparison at all. It doesn't require people to undergo medical procedures, doesn't violate their right to their own bodies or their basic freedom
Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by rbanffy on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:36PM (#29424539)
It’s about the right to expose others to a risk without their consent.

You don’t have the right to expose others to a deadly disease. If you undergo the “medical procedure” (an injection, not surgery, brain transplant or anything complicated, expensive or risky) you reduce risks for you and others, as well as you avoid the risk of using my taxes to pay for additional medical care you wouldn’t need if you just had the very minor inconvenience of two injections.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by TheRealNGenius on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:01AM (#29428045)
Put another way, you have so little faith in the efficacy of the vaccine's ability to protect you from the effects of covid that you want others to take that same vaccine just so that you can feel a little better about your odds. And the other side is the selfish one. That sum it up?
Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by jseban on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:43PM (#29424624)
Yeah but I'm not responsible for that deadly disease, and I don't control it. It's everywhere all the time. And it's really unclear if me getting vaccinated actually helps anything. It's a completely different thing if you are in 100% control of where a factory should be placed. The equivalent would be to argue that the factory should be banned because someone somewhere are in fact misusing these explosives for evil purposes, and therefor it should be closed forever.

With that reasoning, you are always exposing others to some indirect risk by any activity you do, everything must be banned. There's a certain limit to what is considered within your direct control and can be considered your personal responsibility.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by SamTwardowski on Thursday December 02, 2021 @07:22PM (#29424989)
You are expected to allow yourself to be subjected to whatever injections and suffer whatever loss of human dignity for the purpose of some vague "risk-reduction" that ultimately will contribute little towards the actual goal which is never clearly defined and is subject to eternal revision (only in good faith though :)). You are expected to do this to your children as well.
Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by rbanffy on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:01AM (#29428044)
The clearly defined goal is to reduce the number of deaths and avoid exhausting hospital capacity.

Vaccines are helping with that.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by skeeter2020 on Thursday December 02, 2021 @05:54PM (#29423989)
>> But requiring others to get a vaccine to attain some arbitrary risk ratio just doesn't make sense.

Uhm, we do this all the time: licensing, seat belts, etc. Welcome to modern society.

Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by rbanffy on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:02PM (#29424103)
At least with seatbelts it is the idiot who gets hurt. In the case of vaccines, it’s the others, mostly those who, for valid medical reasons, can’t be vaccinated.
Re:Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan t... by worik on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:14AM (#29428421)
Everything in life has a non-zero probability of killing you.

We weigh up the probabilities.

Which is why it is a good idea to get vaccinated.