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Re:Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony by Barrin92 on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:39PM (#29382668)
>how do you distinguish 'telemetry' from 'surveillance'?

For starters, consent. Telemetry generally supposes that the user opts into, either directly or by accepting the terms of using a service, and is free to walk away.

I find the increasing usage of the word surveillance completely silly and ideological. If the NSA vacuums data from some underwater cable that's surveillance, when I exchange information, aware of what's being handed over in exchange for some service, that's a trade.

Re:Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony by gigel82 on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:20PM (#29383198)
How aware can you be though? Windows has dozens of different endpoints [1] that collect thousands of data points [2], and I presume that can change at any time with an update.

Who has the time to read (let alone "become aware") of the full scope of that?

[1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/windows-11-... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/required-wi...

Re:Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony by Barrin92 on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:50PM (#29383598)
Here in the EU at least Windows walks you through privacy and telemetry settings on the first start and you get a very direct overview of what's being collected and knobs to turn it off, courtesy of the GDPR I think. I don't think changing data collection automatically is legal either.

I'm all for informed consent, create laws to give users transparency and control over their data. But if users have that and they still decide that exchanging info for better services is worth it, calling it surveillance is I think not appropriate.

Case in point, Vscode. I'll gladly give them telemetry access for getting a better editor.

Re:Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony by gigel82 on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:05PM (#29383791)
I presume you mean the OOBE (at Windows install) where you get to choose between "Required" and "Optional" telemetry; we have that in the US as well. BTW, the [2] link includes only the data set for "Required" telemetry which you have no way of disabling (unless you do DNS / IP blocking or manually disable / delete services and scheduled tasks).
Re:Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony by _jal on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:39PM (#29384962)
> I find the increasing usage of the word surveillance completely silly and ideological.

That's nice. I find downplaying the reality of surveillance to acclimate people to even more of it very dangerous and ideological.

Re:Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony by ahepp on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:18PM (#29383166)
if it's automatic, doesn't that make it "opt out", not "opt in"?