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Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by hungryforcodes on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:11AM (#29378907)
> A reminder that pretty much no lorry driver in india knows English.

They live in India -- why would they need to know English exactly?

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by JulianMorrison on Monday November 29, 2021 @08:01AM (#29379308)
IIRC English - Indian English, not British or American - is the second language of the most people in India. Otherwise, they have so many local languages they would be mutually incomprehensible. But everyone learns English, and so they can talk and do business.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by mindcrime on Monday November 29, 2021 @10:53AM (#29381238)
I had two Indian co-workers once, and we got into talking about languages. I was a bit surprised at the time to find out that the only language they shared in common was English. One spoke English, Tamil, and a regional dialect, and the other spoke English, Hindi, and a (different) regional dialect.

I later came to find that this is actually quite common in India. And I understand English is still widely taught there, as a legacy of British colonialism, and so many (most?) Indian people - especially in urban areas - do speak English to some extent.

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by Arnavion on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:49PM (#29385087)
>And I understand English is still widely taught there, as a legacy of British colonialism, and so many (most?) Indian people - especially in urban areas - do speak English to some extent.

"English is still widely taught here" is an understatement. Upper- and middle-upper-class children usually go to "English medium" schools, where all classes are taught in English (except for the local language class, eg the Hindi class is taught in Hindi), and you're expected to speak only English when talking to other kids and teachers as long as you're on school grounds.

And yes, the only common language you can expect to find when talking to someone who could be from any other part of India is English. If you were talking to shopkeepers, laborers, etc, you'd likely need to use the local language, though they'll have a bare understanding of English words for things like the items they sell.

Even when speaking to people who do understand the local language, most people will speak in a blend of English and the local language, eg Hinglish (English + Hindi) where many nouns will be from English and connecting words will be from Hindi. People who speak in pure Hindi tend to be of the "old-fashioned" stereotype - Sanskrit / Hindi teachers or religious teachers / saints or nationalist extremists.

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by mindcrime on Monday November 29, 2021 @04:03PM (#29385258)
"English is still widely taught here" is an understatement. Upper- and middle-upper-class children usually go to "English medium" schools, where all classes are taught in English (except for the local language class, eg the Hindi class is taught in Hindi), and you're expected to speak only English when talking to other kids and teachers as long as you're on school grounds.

Wow. I didn't realize that English was that deeply embedded into Indian society. Fascinating how these things play out over time.

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by hungryforcodes on Monday November 29, 2021 @09:06PM (#29387954)
I had no idea either! That's pretty interesting. Though I got huge downvotes for my question -- thanks everyone. We don't all know English is so wide spread in India.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by 1-more on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:27PM (#29384067)
To add: the Dravidian languages of South India (Malayalam, Telugu, Tamil, etc) have no common ancestor with the Indic/Indo-Aryan languages of the North (Hindi, Gujurati, Punjabi, etc) which are part of the Indo-European family. So while they may have some loanwords across them, the grammar and the majority of the vocabulary is totally foreign.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by koyote on Monday November 29, 2021 @04:46PM (#29385686)
Many years ago while travelling in Kerala I got chatting to an Indian guy on the bus. It turned out that he was from northern India and he mentioned that he too was a tourist in Kerala because he did not speak the local language.

He had to speak English to everyone and would have had the same communication challenges that I had. His skin colour was also quite a bit lighter so even though he did not stand out quite as much as me, he was still quite recognisable as an outsider.

Now this sounds quite obvious if you have ever read up about India and its languages/cultures/ethnicities, but even though I technically knew this I was still baffled that you could be such an outsider in your own country.

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by Aloha on Monday November 29, 2021 @11:44AM (#29381945)
English is the lingua franca in India for a reason, one of the things I found interesting about the British Raj, is, the english sowed the seeds of tools of their own exit - Railways, English and Civil Society (specifically the Indian Civil Service and some vague ideals of Democracy).

Those three things took the area that comprised British India, from a bunch of loosely connected nation-states, each with their own cultures, languages, and religions - while still having much in common, but not something that was easily unifiable, to something much more cohesive, to something that could be united.

Then leaders came along who were educated in Britain, filled with British democratic ideals who learned how to subvert to colonial system from within. Who then did so, they wrestled what was considered the crown jewel of the empire from the British, with the tools the British gave them. It's still a brilliant feat, because it used colonialism to subvert and ultimately defeat colonialism.

None of this should be construed as a defense of the Raj, or to imply that India could not have unified itself without those tools, but it turned an impossibly gargantuan task into a merely very hard one, because those tools allowed (at least temporarily) for people to overcome sectarian differences, and work together as one people towards a common goal with a common understanding.

I wish people knew more about partition however, partition is the greatest humanitarian crisis the world knows nearly nothing about, it rivals even the holocaust in size, and it didn't have to happen, but for a lack of trust between the Indian National Congress and the Muslim League. I believe that India, Pakistan and Bangladesh would be stronger today if it was one nation rather than three.

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by u801e on Monday November 29, 2021 @05:38PM (#29386221)
> I believe that India, Pakistan and Bangladesh would be stronger today if it was one nation rather than three.

There are many culteral differences and even different languages that are not mutually intelligible between different states and provinces. Europe is a union, but not a single country. Perhaps India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and other nations in South Asia could be part of a union, but I don't really think that it would work out as a single country.

In fact, present day Myanmar/Burma was also governed by the British prior to World War II, but it didn't become part of India (mainly due to the British separating it from India in the late 1930s).

Would Nepal want to be part of the single country, given that it was never colonized by the British?

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by Aloha on Monday November 29, 2021 @05:53PM (#29386370)
I think it would have worked out as a federal structure, yes, a high degree of regional autonomy, with a shared economy, military and foreign policy.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by alex_smart on Monday November 29, 2021 @11:39AM (#29381878)
>IIRC English - Indian English, not British or American - is the second language of the most people in India

It isn't. According to 2011 census, 11% people in India can speak English (I suspect that the actual number is much lower). Hindi on the other hand is spoken by 57%.

English is the language of elitism in India.

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by guiltygods on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:03PM (#29383761)
> English is the language of elitism in India.

English is lingua franca regardless of social or economic status.

Every child gets to learn 3 languages : one local language, One regional elective (or Hindi), and English.

English is now pervasive enough that transliterated words are common in all languages and are being used natively. People use English words and idioms without even realizing they are speaking English. You will find even in remotest corners someone who will understand and converse in rudimentary English (especially the youngsters).

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by alex_smart on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:19PM (#29384705)
>regardless of social or economic status

Absolute nonsense. Only 11% of Indians spoke English according to 2011 census. The ability to speak fluent English is the biggest marker of social and economic status after caste in India.

This is not really some deep insight. Everybody in India knows this, especially the 89% who don't speak English. There are even bollywood movies even based on the concept (see Hindi Medium, English Vinglish).

>Every child gets to learn 3 languages

The quality of teaching of English in government schools especially state boards is abysmal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_KVFZPofQU [Govt school teachers fail to identify nouns in a sentence]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42xxu5HdJzc [Govt school teacher fails to read a primary school textbook]

I also technically got to "learn" Sanskrit as my 3rd language in school. How many sentences of Sanskrit do you think I can utter now?

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by Taniwha on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:23PM (#29384003)
I think the important idea is that with the British gone English is a neutral language not owned by any one group within India
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by alex_smart on Monday November 29, 2021 @03:22PM (#29384746)
Except it is absolutely owned by people who can send their children to the very few good, usually private, usually expensive schools.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by orblivion on Monday November 29, 2021 @09:45AM (#29380428)
And IIRC Hindi is supposed to do that but it doesn't always work out in the south (local nationalism among other things?).
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by bettysdiagnose on Monday November 29, 2021 @04:44PM (#29385669)
Well Hindi is just as alien linguistically to the south as English is. English and Hindi have more in common with each other. I guess English is a neutral second langauge.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by Arnavion on Tuesday November 30, 2021 @01:45AM (#29389608)
It's not even a North vs South thing. The so-called Hindi belt is a tiny part of North India, and even then plenty of people that live in it don't speak it.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by paulgb on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:14AM (#29378925)
They don't, but it seems like relevant context on an article about an English phrase that's ubiquitous there.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by emteycz on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:16AM (#29378935)
English is one of only two recognized official languages (in addition to Hindi) of the Republic of India [the federation]. It is widely used when native languages can't bridge the gap between two Indians.

edit: s/Indian state/Republic of India

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by WeekSpeller on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:39AM (#29379119)
By Indian state you mean the federal govt. States have their own official languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_with_official_status...

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by umanwizard on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:41AM (#29379138)
They meant “state” in the general sense, not the particular sense of the federated entities of India, USA, Australia etc.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by umanwizard on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:45AM (#29379167)
Also there are some Indians with English as one of their native languages. Not sure how common that is, but enough that I know multiple of them despite not being from India myself.
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by DonHopkins on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:19AM (#29378962)
To read the phrase "Horn OK Please" perhaps?
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by manojlds on Monday November 29, 2021 @08:11AM (#29379435)
"Horn Ok Please" is Hindi, right?
Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by sumedh on Monday November 29, 2021 @08:20AM (#29379536)
> why would they need to know English exactly?

because if they know English, they can get higher paying jobs

Re:The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous ... by orblivion on Monday November 29, 2021 @09:46AM (#29380431)
Among the other answers don't forget the British Empire.