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Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dirtyid on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:06AM (#29376606)
>They really botched early covid.

Except they didn't. Enough countries managed to largely contain covid pre-delta based on WHO information that was provide by PRC. Information that was timely relative to how slow many countres implemented basic epidemiologic containment strategies after the fact. Some despite having capability to implement such strategies, and many who unfortunately never had the capability but simply never had a chance considering covid spread before PRC detection. WHO didn't do perfectly, but they did enough considering circumstances. As for influence, PRC influence is commiserate relative to geopolitical power - there isn't a feasible global governance structure where PRC interests won't be accounted for. Otherwise PRC wouldn't have been incentivized to handle covid relatively responsibly compared to SARS.

Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by philliphaydon on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:18AM (#29376675)
A lot of asia did well in the beginning by ignoring the WHO. Even NZ ignored the WHO and managed to keep it under control for a long time.

If the CCP spent more time being open and honest and less time arresting people for talking about covid and documenting it this would probably have ended up better than they are now.

Even now the CCP propaganda is still trying to convince Twitter and Facebook users that covid started with deer in the US.

Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dirtyid on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:36AM (#29376775)
Countries that did well responsibly implemented WHOs basic epidemiologic principes of test, trace, isolate to contain spread - 101 epidemiological strategy WHO recommended. Including NZ. Import statistic numbers of covid cases oringated from PRC has demosntrated it was managable because PRC never allowed it to get bad in the first place via draconian lock downs. CCP quarantined entire province of Wuhan, they did more than enough to buy time for any country with capability to execute competent containment. Which BTW was also early CCP propaganda... literally telling countries to take covid19 seriously by locking down but was instead met with lockdown skepticism. CCP, like WHO, did enough.

>Even now the CCP propaganda is still trying to convince Twitter and Facebook users that covid started with deer in the US.

And? Of course CCP is going to tit-for-tat origin propaganda started by US. This treaty will no doubt attempt tackle the politicization of pandemics in the future, but likely to no avail.

Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by philliphaydon on Monday November 29, 2021 @06:34AM (#29378626)
> Countries that did well responsibly implemented WHOs basic epidemiologic principes of test, trace, isolate to contain spread - 101 epidemiological strategy WHO recommended. Including NZ.

NZ and Taiwan didn't follow WHO in the early days. Going against all the recommendations of the WHO of not using masks, not closing boarders, not locking down. And both countries did super well at controlling the pandemic.

> CCP quarantined entire province of Wuhan, they did more than enough to buy time for any country with capability to execute competent containment.

The CCP welded people into their apartments, boxed them up in metal boxes and shipped them off to quarentine, dragged them out of their homes. The whole time lying about the number of cases, and the seriousness. They shut down domestic travel and stopped incoming international flights. But allowed outgoing international flights while calling anyone who stopped flights from China racist.

> And? Of course CCP is going to tit-for-tat origin propaganda started by US.

There was no propaganda started by the US. The lab theory started in Asia in the Janurary. It wasn't until the US/Trump mentioned it that it got shutdown as a conspiracy by Trump.

Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dirtyid on Monday November 29, 2021 @07:48AM (#29379194)
>NZ and Taiwan didn't follow WHO in the early days

They followed the basic test/trace/isolate advocated by WHO seriously, mask was additional prevention layer from basic common sense that Asians including PRC already were doing. BTW PRC was also advocating mask wearing in their "propaganda". TW itself got a chance to act early due to warning by PRC doctors due to cross strait connections. Same info avail to west via backchannels. Again, import case statistics from TW/NZ demonstrated PRC exported less than a few hundred cases to these places TOTAL, which would have been completely managable with a competent isolation system. The entire time they had continous repatriation flights from PRC, as did many other countries that handled covid well directly as result of CCP handling covid well.

> The whole time lying about the number of cases, and the seriousness.

Yet you list actions of how CCP took covid MORE seriously then and now than basically anyone else. Again import case statistics from "transparent" nations demonstrated early covid numbers in Wuhan/Hubei were completely managable -TW,SK,Singapore,AU,NZ,CA all released import case stats daily, and PRC essentially stopped exporting cases a few cases after Hubei lockdown. There's a reason vast number of patient zero and import cases in most of the world came from western countries who didn't take epidemic prevention seriously. PRC did her part, include blocking outbound flight early, except repatriation flights, because you know, they can't keep foreign citizens trapped in country. And the countries that didn't take screening fucked themselves, i.e. countries that just took quarantine theatre temperature checks while letting folks go home with little followup. Their profound lack of seriousness turned a managable situation unmanagable.

> There was no propaganda started by the US.

Politicized by Tom Cotton and republican peers in early Feburary i.e. endorsed by US political establishment before PRC formally responded with Fort Detrick campaign. Doesn't matter how MSM treat it as conspiracy, it was formal propaganda position drive initiated by republicans, supported at the highest level of office, including campaigns by lying Pompeo.

Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by philliphaydon on Monday November 29, 2021 @08:25AM (#29379592)
> They followed the basic test/trace/isolate advocated by WHO seriously

No. TW started inspecting flights from Wuhan before the WHO even did anything. NZ blocked inbound flights while the WHO was figuring out what to do.

> TW itself got a chance to act early due to warning by PRC doctors due to cross strait connections.

No. Taiwan heard whispers of SARS/Unknown pneumonia and reacted accordingly.

> Again, import case statistics from TW/NZ demonstrated PRC exported less than a few hundred cases to these places TOTAL

No. NZ closed its border to China in Feb. TW closed its border for flights from Wuhan. China stopped domestic flights from Wuhan but continued to allow flights out of Wuhan. This has nothing to do with "they can't keep foreign citizens trapped in country", because 1) they can and 2) they do.

> Yet you list actions of how CCP took covid MORE seriously then and now than basically anyone else.

So you agree that welding people into their apartments is a good approach to controlling the virus?

> Politicized by Tom Cotton and republican peers in early Feburary

It was a valid theory, and still is. Was never a conspiracy theory to anyone but the left. While nothing from the PRC has been anything other than propaganda conspiracy theory. The lab leak theory should have been taken seriously in the beginning when it was theorized at the beginning of Jan.

Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dirtyid on Monday November 29, 2021 @08:52AM (#29379855)
NZ blocked flights to China in early Feb after Wuhan was already locked down. TW was informed about unknown pneumonia directly from PRC doctors around time when WHO was notified in Dec 2019. Both responded to completely salient signals provided by PRC.

>1) they can and 2) they do

For breaking PRC laws, not epidemic prevention. At end of day, countries wanted to repatriate and PRC obliged. It's asinine to suggest PRC can with hold foreign nationals, as if that won't spark a completely different kind of outrage. Obviously said criminals who broke PRC laws weren't repatriated. TW citizens from Wuhan was repatriated via rail to Shanghai. TW CDC had up to date release of repatriation flights and positives. Up till Aprial, TW repatraitaed about ~1000 out of Wuhan with 1 testing positive on an early Feburary flight. That's it. Because Hubei lock down was that effective.

> good approach to controlling the virus

Covid-0 strategy is probably the right one for PRC. More importantly it demonstrates containing covid was absolutely a viable. But other relatively milder intervention stratgies also possible as seen in other successful countries that adhered to basic WHO guidelines who didn't resort to PRC tier interventions. They were just slightly less successful. Even TW response barely ranks well when measured against other PRC provinces. Taking pandemic response seriously is correlated to serious results should not be shocking.

> was a valid theory

About as valid as Fort Detrick at the time (and now). Point is early lab leak propaganda was just that, propaganda designed to policized for Sino-US rivalry when origin tracing hasn't even begun and hampered subsequent efforts. PRC position has always been to let science handle origin tracing which in terms of propaganda is tame. Reality apart from delays around two-sessions in Jan PRC has provided more than enough info and signals for most serious actors to contain covid19 depite virus already spreading abroad prior to two-sessions or detection of market cluster. Or that there's still zero indication covid19 originated in PRC vs PRC discovering first cluster. Lot's of valid theories out there, but what gets pushed by whom and when and for what purpose is how things get politicized and what treaty is designed to mitigate.

At the end of the day CCP + WHO did fine, because those that took them seriously (like actually seriously) did Ok. Those that didn't, burned and have been looking for escape goats to their own failure.

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Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dang on Wednesday December 01, 2021 @02:21PM (#29407968)
Flamewar comments and personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you about this many times before. Please review the site guidelines and stick to the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by philliphaydon on Wednesday December 01, 2021 @08:02PM (#29411273)
There wouldn’t be flame wars if you stopped letting people spread propaganda and lies. You rate limit me but allow the others who are spreading misinformation to run wild.
Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dang on Wednesday December 01, 2021 @10:23PM (#29412173)
By "propaganda and lies", people mostly mean "things said by the other side". The other side, of course, thinks you're the one spreading propaganda and lies. So unfortunately, what all arguments boil down to is "you should moderate this site to privilege my side and ban the other side". That's not a viable option if we want some sort of shared public space.

The HN guidelines are our attempt to have a set of rules that make some sort of decent shared space possible. We ban accounts that violate them, for what ought to be obvious reasons, so please stick to the rules from now on.

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Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by dang on Wednesday December 01, 2021 @02:21PM (#29407975)
Re:The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics by philliphaydon on Tuesday November 30, 2021 @06:24AM (#29391006)
Lol it was posted on social media in China. Which TW monitors. TW never asked China and China never told Taiwan.

Stop spreading false information on HN.