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Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by bsder on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:15AM (#29359915)
Meh. Grammar, in general, is on a steep suckiness trend.

For example, when was the last time you saw someone on the web actually use the correct past tense of "lead (verb, transitive)"?

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by pwdisswordfish0 on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:41AM (#29360070)
What is the correct past tense of lead? I thought it was “led”, but I can’t remember having ever read any other form?

What often irks me, as a non-native speaker, is the wrong subjunctive (if that’s what it’s called). People say and write all the time “I wish you were there”, when they mean “I wish you had been there”. At least I’m pretty sure that’s how it’s supposed to be…

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by ghkbrew on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:05AM (#29360224)
"I wish you were here." is grammatically correct in English. And yes it is the "subjunctive mood". Its meaning is closer to "I wish for you to be here" than "I wish you had been here".

This random page I found on the internet has a pretty decent explanation of the subjunctive:

https://www.learngrammar.net/a/examples-of-the-subjunctive-m...

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by secondcoming on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:39AM (#29360488)
"I wish you were _there_", not "I wish you were here"
Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by bsder on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:44AM (#29360519)
> I thought it was “led”

It is "led". I notice the web using "lead" for both the present and past forms a lot--presumably because it sneaks past spelling checkers and autocorrect. (There's also a correspondence to "read" (long e) where "read" (short e) is also the past tense. Yeah, welcome to English.)

And, I'm almost sorry for pointing it out if you haven't noticed it. Once you do notice it, you see it everywhere and it's a big, jarring speedbump when you read.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by dsr_ on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:03AM (#29360210)
"I wish you were here" -- in this location, now or in the past.

"I wish you were there" -- at another location, now or in the past.

"I wish you had been there" -- at another location, in the past.

"had been" means that the action is concluded. "were" is for both continuing and concluded actions, and more words are necessary to glark it from context.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by denton-scratch on Sunday November 28, 2021 @01:09AM (#29366609)
"Were" is the subjunctive. I think it comes to English from the German subjunctive form "wäre". It's not the same word as "were", as in "We were running".

The example you've chosen refers to an event in the past, so "were" seems to be ambiguous in that context, because it could be "you were there", prefixed by I wish - i.e. the writer isn't trying to use the subjunctive at all, which I think is nowadays OK.

"I wish you were here" is a clearer example. That is clearly present subjunctive. "I wish you had been here" would be referring to an event in the past - so that's some kind of past subjunctive.

I regret the death of the subjunctive.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by dsr_ on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:57AM (#29360163)
Present: "He leads me to believe in grammatical rigor."

Past: "She led me to that conclusion long ago."

Past, growing popular but historically incorrect: "She lead me to that conclusion long ago."

Noun: "I licked the sweet lead off the wall."

Also noun: "After six rounds of chess-boxing-sprinting, it was not clear to either of the participants who had the lead."

Also also popular but historically incorrect noun: "We have eighty thousand lead-free ornaments on this wall, each lit by an individually-addressable led."

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by denton-scratch on Sunday November 28, 2021 @01:12AM (#29366618)
And each led connected to power by its own lead. Incidentally, are those ornaments electrically-powered? Don't they need leads to provide power?
Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by NoSorryCannot on Saturday November 27, 2021 @11:13AM (#29361192)
This is spelling, not grammar. It's the same word, not a noun, spelled differently.
Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by forgatmigej on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:51AM (#29360129)
Some would say that a focus on proper grammar, expansive incorporated linguistical repertoires, and western/anglo-centric style is not inclusive. And I would agree.

In line with your example, I have noticed "costed" used instead of "cost" increasingly often.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by dsr_ on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:08AM (#29360247)
"costed" is proper when referring to the past action of determining the price for something to purchase. "Last week Sheila costed out the parts list, so it should be accurate."

"priced" is proper for both the past actions of determining the price of something to purchase or something to sell.

"Last week Sheila priced out the parts list, so it should be accurate."

"Last week Sheila priced everything on the shelves."

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by throwaway2077 on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:34AM (#29360440)
english is not esperanto. it happens to be the native language for a significant part of the world population, and they have no obligation to accept its bastardization for the sake of inclusivity.

in every non-western country with its own language, those "some" would get rightfully ridiculed.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by tomcatfish on Saturday November 27, 2021 @06:49PM (#29364784)
> bastardization

What is this universal, pure English you've been speaking? I must have missed the tablets on which it was written?

Non jokingly: There is no "bastardization" of a natural language. It is spoken how it is spoken and insisting otherwise is missing the point of language (I suggest it is "communication"). There is no King of English to sit and dictate the rules except for the common languages spoken.

If you want to really grok the concept, take some time to figure out what a "language" actually is. I'll give you a hint: your first 5 definitions have obvious failings.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by denton-scratch on Sunday November 28, 2021 @01:22AM (#29366656)
I don't agree that contemporary usage defines the language. We have a canon of English literature reaching back centuries, and people use phrases from e.g. Shakespeare without eveen noticing they're doing it. I think it would be a shame if learning contemporary usage should fail to equip you to read Shakespeare.

Descriptivism is all very well; but it doesn't seem to allow for any usage to be actually incorrect.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by beardyw on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:56AM (#29360156)
Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by bsder on Saturday November 27, 2021 @09:49AM (#29360557)
Erm, at least one of those is unusually wrong:

"The doors are not always hidden - they clearly separate these two worlds, and may also led to very nice places that are just not public."

Presumably a typo.

Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by beardyw on Saturday November 27, 2021 @10:22AM (#29360818)
True, and one of the others is mine - not really sure I can claim I read it! Still ... one.
Re:The melancholy decline of the semicolon by denton-scratch on Sunday November 28, 2021 @01:01AM (#29366573)
Isn't that just ignorant spelling? I don't think that's a grammmar error. But I see it all the time.