News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by cogman10 on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:30PM (#29281234)
If an employee at the bank removes a zero, you can sue them and your bank and get your money back. More likely, it wouldn't come to that, you can contact your bank and get that 0 corrected without legal interference (because they don't WANT to be sued).

If someone steals your coin... That's it. Game over. There's no way to force them to give it back. Assuming they are in the same country as you and you can identify them, then you might be able to start legal proceeding to get your money back, but even then, nothing you can do will force them to return whatever coin they have. If they die, game over, the coin is lost forever and the best you can hope for is their estate has enough value in it to recover the loss.

An error on the side of the bank gives you a clear target for legal action to recover funds, and barring you having more wealth stolen than the bank has value (unlikely), you'll get your money back.

The security of the block chain is both a boon and a curse. It allows the blockchain to operate without a central controller, but it also, by design, makes transactions irreversible.

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by camjohnson26 on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:32PM (#29281261)
The justice system is an external control, I’m saying that blockchain protocols can have value because they provide this security without an external control. That permanence could be a feature or a downside depending on how the protocol is used.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by cogman10 on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:44PM (#29281392)
And I'm pointing out the downside. External control does not work on the blockchain, which means that when mistakes or theft happen, there's no mechanism to undo.

It's a pretty large downside. The only upside I've heard is that you could avoid oppression or government theft. However, I'd contend that a government that would directly rob your bank account isn't exactly going to stop at just that.

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by camjohnson26 on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:48PM (#29281442)
We agree there. The crypto ecosystem seems to be in a massive bubble, and Tether is a blatant fraud that’s contributing to wash trading on the unregulated exchanges, and NFTs are just a scam. But it bothers me when people use those facts to try to say that blockchain technology therefore doesn’t have a valid use case. It does, and proof of work was a monumental invention, but how blockchain ultimately will be used is unclear right now because the industry is so broken.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by Jensson on Friday November 19, 2021 @04:21PM (#29282676)
I think we should continue to research blockchain and crypto, it is an interesting topic. But when the crypto scam industry is worth many billions then basically every online discussion will be full of people who try to manipulate others to buy into crypto so that their crypto assets would increase in value. So until the scam part dies down it will be impossible to have a fruitful online discussion about it, it will just be a lot of scammers and a lot of defensive people who try to avoid getting scammed.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by fsflover on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:38PM (#29281328)
> If an employee at the bank removes a zero, you can sue them

Only if you live in a democratic country with fair courts.

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by cogman10 on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:45PM (#29281407)
Fine, if you live in a non-democratic country with no or an unreliable banking system, go nuts with the blockchain.

I get the feeling that 99% of blockchain users/proponents aren't in that circumstance.

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by fsflover on Friday November 19, 2021 @03:17PM (#29281812)
You are probably right. But they help the other 1% by using crypto.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by JoachimS on Monday November 22, 2021 @07:32AM (#29305648)
But it still doesn't protect the other 1%. An oppresive regime that can steal their money or other physical assets, can also beat, pressure them until they hand over access to their crypto wallet.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by fsflover on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:45AM (#29316721)
There are always edge cases, where nothing helps. Fortunately, most countries are not like North Korea and you have some freedom, often enough to use crypto.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by fsflover on Saturday November 20, 2021 @04:24AM (#29286663)
Not sure why downvotes. If only 1% of people who need it use Bitcoin, it becomes unreliable for them.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by acdha on Friday November 19, 2021 @03:06PM (#29281664)
… and if you live an abusive or failed state, the blockchain encryption just means that the kidnappers will start running XKCD 538 on you or your family until you give them your password. This is not a problem with a technical solution.

Consider also the scale: what percentage of cryptocurrency users live in regimes like that versus the percentage who have functioning courts but are one exploit/phish away from irrecoverably losing all of their cryptocurrency?

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by fsflover on Friday November 19, 2021 @03:14PM (#29281772)
> … and if you live an abusive or failed state, the blockchain encryption just means that the kidnappers will start running XKCD 538 on you or your family

You assume that from the blockchain kidnappers can find out who I am. I don't think they can, unless I exchange crypto with them.

>Consider also the scale: what percentage of cryptocurrency users live in regimes like that versus the percentage who have functioning courts but are one exploit/phish away from irrecoverably losing all of their cryptocurrency?

People always make mistakes. Do you suggest to prohibit every possible action which might lead to bad consequences? Do you suggest to damage people in need in order to save those living with good conditions?

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by acdha on Friday November 19, 2021 @03:46PM (#29282223)
They can tell you have money by your activity. If they grab your devices, they know you have the apps. If you do anything on a public blockchain like win a bid for an NFT, that’s also a clue.

Sure, if you live like a monk and never talk about it, you can probably avoid attention but there are plenty of people who thought they could do that successfully up until they didn’t. Again, it’s not a problem with a technical fix.

Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by JoachimS on Monday November 22, 2021 @07:35AM (#29305679)
Not kidnappers. Officers from the oppressive regime. Unfortunately we have examples of regimes demanding access to personal devices - including forced installation of applications, rooting phones and installing backdoors.
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by deadw3ight on Friday November 19, 2021 @02:56PM (#29281534)
Basically the question is: who do you want to rely on/trust more, encryption or the justice system?
Re:Why NFTs are bad: the long version by cogman10 on Friday November 26, 2021 @05:41PM (#29355001)
That's a false equivalence.

I have more trust in the correctness of encryption than the reliability of the justice system.

HOWEVER, that's not what's at issue with crypto. The issue of crypto is that it's irreversible. It absolutely does exactly what you tell it to do, and no more. But, at the same time, that means that when non-algorithm mistakes or exploits (ransom, cons, etc) happen you have 0 recourse to fix it.

There's a reason crypto is the preferred method of wealth transmission for scam artists, hackers, and ransomware.