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Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by RivieraKid on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @03:36PM (#29246055)
Tangential question, what are the areas of technology where we can expect to see substantial progress or breakthroughs within 2030, i.e. what are the most exciting areas to follow and look forward to? Here's my list:

- Nuclear fusion (Helion, ZAP, TAE, Tokamak Energy, CFS, Wendelstein).

- Self-driving cars.

- New types of nuclear fission reactors.

- Spaceflight (SpaceX Starship).

- Supersonic airplanes (Boom).

- Solid state batteries.

- Quantum computing.

- CPUs and GPUs on sub-5nm nodes.

- CRISPR-based therapies.

- Longevity research.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by api on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:30PM (#29246569)
I'd say fusion is a sleeper. You still have that stupid "30 years away and always will be" meme but there is real progress being made. Fusion would completely change the world, though not overnight because it would take another decade or so before it would advance enough to be cost competitive.

I'm semi-optimistic about space flight and longevity. I think Starship will fly, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of its most ambitious specs get dialed back a bit. I'll be somewhat (but not totally) surprised if the "chopsticks" idea works.

We will probably see aging-reversal to some limited extent within 10-20 years, but the effect will probably be more to extend "health span" than add that much to life span. (I'll take it.)

I'll add one not on the list: the use of deep learning to discover theories in areas like physics and math that have not occurred to humans and maybe are not capable of being found by ordinary human cognition.

Wildcard, but plausible: detection of a strong extrasolar biosphere candidate using JWST or another next-generation telescope. Detection would be based on albedo absorption spectra, so we wouldn't know for sure. Talk of an interstellar fly-by probe would start pretty quickly.

I wouldn't list sub-5nm as "far out." We will almost definitely get sub-5nm. AFAIK 3nm is in the pipeline. Sub-1nm is "far out" and may or may not happen.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by paxys on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:02PM (#29246316)
Sadly I'd also qualify most of these as things that consumers are overly excited about but will never reach their expected potential (at least in our lifetimes) due to technological limits. Same as flying cars, 3D TVs, 3D printing, household robots, holograms, AR glasses.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by kingcharles on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:17PM (#29246465)
3D TVs will come of age once autostereoscopic displays reach the right level of quality. After being blown away by my first glimpse of a display in around 1998 I fully expected them to be useable years ago. I guess we might still be another "10 years" away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostereoscopy

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by Hamuko on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:45PM (#29246716)
I really doubt that there's going to be huge desire for 3D TVs at any point. People can already look at video on a 2D display and interpret 3D visuals from it. And if you want to be fully immersed in something, maybe you want VR instead.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by GezaElemerQ on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:14PM (#29247457)
"People can already look at video on a 2D display and interpret 3D visuals from it. " way off, depends heavily on contrast sensitivity which is a function of brightness and displays have long way to go (esp with ambient around) +HDR even breaks current VR chain because stray light.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by RivieraKid on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:35PM (#29247630)
Google Starline seemed amazing to me. I would love to have a large immersive 3D display for videotelephony, sports, nature documentaries, etc.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by brokenmachine on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @10:37PM (#29249050)
I want 3D TV for sports but apparently I'm the only one.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by createunderrate on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:05AM (#29253980)
What happens when two people want to watch the TV?
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by kingcharles on Friday November 19, 2021 @05:17PM (#29283307)
Well, I'm assuming autostereoscopic displays of the future will solve issues of multiple sets of eyeballs on the same display.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:07PM (#29246364)
AR glasses will hit a wall but passthrough AR will be converged on rapidly. Starting 2022
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by oezi on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:33PM (#29246595)
Any particular insight why 2022?

Hololens 2 has shown that it isn't so easy to advance the field.

I don't think an Apple device is forthcoming or likely to leapfrog.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by alasdair_ on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:45PM (#29246721)
> Any particular insight why 2022?

Facebook, Apple and others are releasing their first AR glasses then.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by m0zg on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:56PM (#29248244)
And there will be approximately zero non-gimmick software for them until at least 2032, if it ever materializes at all.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:25PM (#29267976)
AR "FaceTime" (beaming in an avatar of another person to spend time with) will be a killer app.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by m0zg on Friday November 19, 2021 @04:00AM (#29275190)
But you aren't "spending time" with that person. You're spending time with that person's poorly rendered avatar. You can't even hear them properly. You can't see them at all. You can't touch them or read a lot of the nonverbal cues. And for the privilege of not being in their presence, you also need to pay several hundred (if not thousands, this being Apple) dollars, and both sides need to use Apple products. I very strongly suspect that all but the most ardent Apple fans will pass on this generous offer.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @05:22PM (#29247052)
Passthrough AR isn't glasses AR, and is much more likely to be rapidly made capable. Lynx-R launches in Q1, and Meta's and Apple's headsets will likely use passthrough AR next year.

https://lynx-r.com/

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by oezi on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @05:53PM (#29247301)
I definitely hope for something novel with video see-through HMDs as they used to call them in 2002 [1] when I last worked on them. Latency wasn't solved last I checked and viewpoint offset is still an issue that throws users off.

[1] https://static.aminer.org/pdf/PDF/000/273/730/ar_table_tenni...

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:51PM (#29258040)
Latency is pretty good on Quest 1 - I haven't tried Quest 2. Looking forward to getting a Lynx to gauge how close we are to something good.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by swiley on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:17PM (#29249246)
>flying cars At least you can buy them now.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by javajosh on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:06PM (#29247907)
Don't forget carbon sequestration and geoengineering.

I think longevity research is a path to stagnation, and ultimately counter-productive, and should cease. If science advances one funeral at a time, then longevity is counterproductive for all other progress.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by dane-pgp on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:09AM (#29249483)
So you have chosen death.

There are reasons to worry about the ethics of longevity research (especially if the benefits of it are not justly shared), but I don't think you can justify withholding life-improving medical treatment from people just because you want to help science by letting people die early.

That sort of thinking is how we get Logan's Run.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by javajosh on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:33AM (#29249579)
It's dishonest to characterize what I'm saying as "choosing death", as if I've got a nihilistic urge to nuke the planet. Death, birth, and renewal is part of the entire biosphere which has been existed for billions of years. The cells that defy death are called "cancer". The messiness with which humans come into being and then pass away again is NOT something to be engineered away - it is something to experience and learn to appreciate.

The thing that lives on, that can be effectively immortal (if we choose to protect it) is the biosphere in which we're embedded and, to a lesser extent, the nest of symbols humans have fashioned for themselves over the last few millenia. It is fascinating to imagine what it would be like to live through human history; however it is terrifying to imagine what the "great men" of history would have done or become if not cut down by time. The inevitability of death has surely stopped some great things from being done, but I'm equally sure it has stopped even worse things from being done - imagine human history if the Pharoahs of Egypt had had access to immortality! It's too horrible to imagine.

BTW the Logan's Run system was purely about maintaining homeostasis given limited resources, NOT about maintaining (or even enhancing) dynamism in the population by decreasing average life-span. In other words, unrelated.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by dane-pgp on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @01:07AM (#29249717)
I apologise for the "choosing death" meme, but I think it is only as inappropriate as you equating human beings with "cancer". You're right, though, that humans have to learn to experience and in some sense come to terms with the messiness of death.

I think what we disagree on is what it means to "engineer away" death. Are we engineering away death if we cure a disease, but don't extend the maximum lifespan of humans? Is extending the average lifespan to 100 years all right as long as those treatments are designed to not work on people over 100 years old? If a treatment is later found that helps 100 year olds to extend their age to 101, is that the treatment that should be banned, or is there some number N where adding N years to the previous maximum is morally wrong and the whole world has to agree on banning it?

Your point about the Pharaohs is maybe not as strong as you think, since of course the Pharaonic system did outlast any of the individual office holders. I don't think it was old age that lead to the fall of that regime, and there are plenty of regimes which manage to be equally horrible within a single lifetime, or that are overthrown within the space of one lifetime.

Thank you for that succinct explanation of the premise of Logan's Run. I wasn't sure if it worked as an analogy, since, as you say, the motivation of the society was different from the one you are advocating for, but I think the most relevant aspect of Logan's Run is the dystopian nature of a society which imposes age limits on its members, against their wishes.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by javajosh on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:16AM (#29254148)
Nothing wrong with improving quality of the life we do have, which naturally would mean increasing lifespan a little. In fact, I'd argue that's precisely the right way to spend resources - quality, not quantity.

I'm not at all against small increases in lifespan, and certainly for improving quality of life (e.g. defeating disease). I'm specifically against individual immortality because I strongly suspect it would quickly and inexorably lead to stagnation and death for our species.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by MobiusHorizons on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @05:36PM (#29247168)
I would argue that most of the items on this list can be subdivided into two types of hype.

short term hype (real advances that will happen in 1-2 years, but won't matter by 2030, because they are just a generational iteration)

Over-hyped far-future research. (things where the possibilities have yet to be brought down to earth by the practical limits of implementing them broadly / cost effectively) When these things do happen, they tend to be a bit of a let-down, because they don't actually provide the promised revolutionary changes. These things basically have to be over-hyped in order to get the necessary funding to bring them to reality.

Of the examples you have, I am only really excited about CRISPR, and to a lesser extent commercial spaceflight, and new nuclear. These have promise IMO, but I also don't expect them to be decade defining.

Personally I don't think we know what the next breakthrough will be yet. I expect it to take us very much by surprise, and start out as something unthreatening which then grows to a disruptive size / scale.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by RivieraKid on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:44PM (#29247716)
Interesting, I think all of those items have a good chance of actually happening ("longevity research" happening means some sort of meaningful progress).

I hope there will be some unexpected breakthroughs too.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by sxv on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:57PM (#29256427)
As someone in their 30s who suffers from baldness and arthritis, two simple conditions yet no promising solutions in sight, I find it cute when people think we can somehow cheat death or aging in the next 300 years.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by teryyy on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:00PM (#29246291)
Synthetic meat of all kinds, ARM based processors, deep learning + AI, agtech/vertical farming/etc.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by mhh__ on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:57PM (#29248254)
> ARM based processors

Compared to most of the other things listed, this is more of a nerd-aestheticism thing rather than something which is hugely important technologically.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by wyre on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @10:12PM (#29248954)
But haven’t ARM based processors put already computers in billions of peoples hands that otherwise wouldn’t have been able to access otherwise? I could argue that is hugely important.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by samus on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:44PM (#29249365)
ARM is merely a commercially successful microarchitecture that turned out to be good at being optimized for mobile application.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by mhh__ on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:40AM (#29249602)
The ARM revolution has already happened, in this case I viewed the mention to be more of a wishlist for the types of computers the global well-off buy.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by TheMagicHorsey on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @03:54PM (#29246241)
Delivery drones: Wing, Amazon, Zipline, Volansi, etc.

Synthetic fuels.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by csee on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:45PM (#29248172)
- Crypto

- Unfortunately, even less local computing, with everything provisioned from the cloud under a SaaS payment model.

- More mRNA applications

- Power/energy networks and markets across borders.

- Theranos, but legitimate. Better, cheaper and more convenient early monitoring/diagnostics for vitamin deficiencies and early stages of disease.

- Carbon neutral combustible fuels.

- Cheaper grid-scale storage.

- Better understanding of the gut-brain connection.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by FridayoLeary on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @05:44PM (#29247241)
I hate to tell you, but your list looks like it came straight out of the 1970's:)

- Spaceflight (SpaceX Starship).

- Supersonic airplanes (Boom).

Been there, done that.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by wongarsu on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:20PM (#29247514)
They are modern takes on the Space Shuttle and Concorde respectively, but with the benefit of hindsight as well as half a century of advances in material science and control systems. But really the defining feature is that the Space Shuttle and Concorde were government-funded prestige projects, while their modern incarnations are economically viable.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:07PM (#29246357)
- Psychadelics

- VR/AR (photonic override, more specifically)

- Fundamental physics (unlocked by tech)

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by tlrobinson on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:20PM (#29246492)
Can you elaborate on “photonic override”? Googling that phrase pretty much just returns more HN comments and tweets by you :)
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @05:22PM (#29247054)
A hardware/software proxy that governs all photons you see.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by walleeee on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @05:56PM (#29247322)
This is desirable?
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by gfodor on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:51PM (#29258051)
Desirable or not is subjective, but what's not as subjective is the liklihood of this technology stack arriving and becoming popular, which seems very likely/guaranteed at this point.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by walleeee on Thursday November 18, 2021 @03:55PM (#29270407)
it does seem likely to arrive but whether it becomes popular more difficult to predict as it's conditioned on the sway of public opinion, which seems heterogeneous regarding AR/VR
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by throwaway6977 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:00PM (#29247859)
Certainly for someone with defective default hardware ;)
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by walleeee on Thursday November 18, 2021 @03:57PM (#29270422)
I certainly see the utility there!
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by relaxing on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:48PM (#29248189)
Look into “diminished reality” - the ability to block things out that would be a distraction, for instance.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by richardw on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @08:08PM (#29248321)
Non animal food. Will transform land use.

Remote education. Available to any kid or adult anywhere.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by javajosh on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:11PM (#29249225)
I think we're learning the limits of screen-based education now. There's something about being in the same room with a person at a chalkboard that is far more effective - at least anecdotally. (I'd be surprised if there wasn't research backing this up). And this seems deeply unfortunate if true, because it means the cost of learning can't go all the way to the ground.
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by richardw on Friday November 19, 2021 @12:14AM (#29274047)
Two thoughts: Africa can’t afford in-person teachers. The ones in my country are not great on average.

I couldn’t learn maths in class. Too distracted, too annoyed with stupid questions. But I increased 3 symbols in 3 school terms with a slide projector and audio tape, where I could focus and rewind. Teacher there was for bits I didn’t learn from the slides. I’m probably in the minority but I’m sure there are more of me.

Digital education catches kids like me and kids who have no access to excellent educators. And marginal cost is zero, so no harm in giving access to the world.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by selimnairb on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:54PM (#29248232)
mRNA-based therapies?
Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by m0zg on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:54PM (#29248239)
Half of these are on their way into "valley of disillusionment" before they become generally useful, though perhaps not as grandiose as originally promised.

And longevity research is not even a real need - we already live too long as it is, from the evolutionary and economic standpoint. I'd much rather someone came up with a way to cheaply and painlessly end one's life once quality of life begins to deteriorate due to chronic disease and such. Some kind of company (and legislative framework) where you pay, say $1K and they put you into a nitrogen chamber and then cremate and flush the ashes down the toilet afterwards. Or perhaps use them as fertilizer. I'd use the service myself at some point in distant future.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by samus on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:06AM (#29249473)
The How is not the issue. A combination of various drugs or an opiate overdose should do the trick. It's already legal in Switzerland, Canada, and Belgium.

Voluntary euthanasia is ultimately challenging because of similar legal issues as with the death penalty - it cannot be undone, and there are forces in society that can lead individuals to use it for other reasons than just being over and done with suffering through old age.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by m0zg on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @03:17AM (#29250316)
That's the point. As long as I'm lucid I should have full bodily autonomy, including the decision to shuffle off this mortal coil. In fact I already have control over this decision.

> and there are forces in society

So? You're going to tell me I can't go anytime I want to? That's not the case even now. It's just that now I'd have to procure the nitrogen myself (which isn't difficult), and my relatives would have to deal with the body. I'm merely suggesting a service that resolves this purely logistical complication, and excludes the possibility of not quite dying but living the rest of one's life as a vegetable.

Think of what we have now: people spend years, sometimes decades suffering from chronic diseases, or just plain not having anything or anyone to live for. And it'll get worse as medicine "improves", and lifespans "improve" with it. Is it humane to withhold the option to end it all from them? I don't think it is. I will grant you that there are likely tens of millions of such people on the planet right now. I will also grant that this is not an uncontroversial thing to suggest. But the alternative we have now doesn't seem any more humane or dignified to me.

If this still doesn't sit right with people, we could age and condition-restrict it, or require a long waiting period for when this is not related to acute incurable disease.

> as with the death penalty

Which is also inhumane, IMO. It's much worse to spend the rest of one's days in confinement instead of 30 seconds until barbiturates kick in. That's what the sadists who are against the death penalty are counting on.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by samus on Friday November 19, 2021 @04:29AM (#29275357)
Again, I am aware that there is no core technological or logistical issue. The issue is purely societal. Yes, I can get behind enabling people to specify policies on what to do when untreatable or mental diseases kick in.

The death penalty does not exist to reduce the suffering of the convicted, but to get rid of them. The true issue with the death penalty is that it can't be graduated (except by adding "cruel and unusual punishment") and it can't be undone. Prison sentences can be legally challenged and the innocent can be freed early.

There is a real slippery slope here: what length of prison sentence is considered to be worse than the death penalty? An additional thing to consider is that many countries without the death sentence actually don't impose true life sentences, but very longish ones (upwards from 20 years). Confinement for life is for those irredeemly judged to be a threat to society after their sentence. Compared to that, many death row inmates actually spend decades fighting their sentence. They could end it at any time if they wanted.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by m0zg on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:43AM (#29315833)
Regarding commercialization of suicide: I think you're missing my point entirely somehow. The "societal" issue where old people are unwanted already exists, and it will exist irrespective of any innovation of this kind. Moreover, old or terminally ill people already have full control in terms of whether they choose to live or kick the bucket. There's nothing whatsoever anyone can do about that. Tens of thousands of people in the United States take their lives every year. It's just that if they care about their loved ones (if any) the logistics of dying are horrific. I wouldn't want to subject anyone to that, but I'm afraid if I were terminally ill, that'd be a pretty shitty reason to continue living, and make everyone I love suffer with me.

> The death penalty does not exist to reduce the suffering of the convicted

There's an easy way out of your moral dilemma that you go into after this sentence, much like what I suggest for those on the outside: let the convicts choose whether they want to suffer for the rest of their days in prison, or be humanely and painlessly killed. I know which way I'd go, under the circumstances. And yes, I do insist that the killing must be humane, dignified, and painless. We have the technology to ensure all three of those things.

Re:IBM unveils 127-qubit quantum processor by samus on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @04:02AM (#29328171)
I can empathize with the first point.

Regarding humane, dignified and painless killing: the Lethal Injection was supposed to be exactly this. But we humans are pretty good at botching things...