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Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by JCM9 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:02AM (#29240610)
Battery chemistry is also a challenge. Also it’s not just the charging cable but the electrical infrastructure behind that cable that also needs an upgrade. You can’t just pull 2k + amps across an endpoint of the grid without causing potential issues to others nearby, let alone the wiring required send that to the charging point where this cable is used. Interesting research, but this is a much bigger challenge than just the charging cable.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by cogman10 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:21AM (#29240801)
Agreed.

Also importantly, the more complex the cable is, the more expensive it will be to replace if someone comes along with some bolt sheers and clips the cable.

Our "current" (pun intended) cables can deliver 350kW of juice. That's already more than most car battery chemistries can accept for more than a few minutes before doing harm to the battery.

Not to mention the fact that even if you could deliver such high amounts of power, that'd translate into insane requirements on the grid, likely necessitating onsite storage to act as a buffer.

All in all, the recharge time problem is overblown. There isn't as much need for high speed charge infrastructure as you'd imagine. That's because most charging is happening at home at lower speeds. Your car almost certainly sits idle for more than 8 hours every day which is plenty of time to refill. Fast charging really only matters for long range excursions, which aren't terribly common.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by vanilla_nut on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:47AM (#29241099)
For folks who own a home with a garage, sure. Most people do not own a home with a garage. For the rest of us, fast charging is an absolute requirement — both for long term trips, yes, and just to keep juice in the car on a daily basis. It’s why I bought an ICE car last year: if you don’t own your own garage, there’s weak charging options available in most US cities.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by mjrpes on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:36AM (#29240982)
There's a large portion of the population who street park and don't have the luxury of charging overnight.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by rootusrootus on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:46AM (#29241089)
A big chunk of those people could be served by a simple fast charger that filled the battery during their grocery shopping.

And, of course, adding more level 2 charging at the curb.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by cogman10 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:44AM (#29241057)
Correct. Those streets are long distances from electrical lines (very often, power is buried next to the road). The "right" solution here is for cities to install charge points in the streets or to incentivize anyone with a parking lot to install charge points (or both).
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by instaheat on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:51PM (#29247776)
I have to disagree with you. It's not overblown. If we were able to "top up" our electric vehicles in the same amount of time it takes our ICE vehicles, we've got a whole new ballgame in terms of adoption.

You have to take human nature into account.

"I'll just get gas in the morning"

Requiring careful planning and dedicated charging at home isn't going to lead to an electric car revolution.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by cogman10 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:38AM (#29253549)
While I admit it's not accessible to all, charging at home requires absolutely no planning. Park the car? plug it in.

Do that, and you'll end up with more than enough charge for daily tasks.

I drive an EV and the only time I worry about fast charging is on road trips. Which, for me that happens once every and a half hours while driving (approximately) and gives me a 30 minute break to wash the windshield, grab a snack, use a restroom.

All in all, not really a big deal.

That, to me, is why it's overblown. With cars getting even longer ranges, it becomes even less of an issue. The first EV with 500 miles of range will be a game changer.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by niffydroid on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:41AM (#29241020)
I've not read the article yet but I would assume if the battery could take the load, then having charge points where the infrastructure can handle the load and deliver it would be ideal. Like you say as long as you recharge overnight, it should be good for most People
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by paul7986 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:56AM (#29241217)
And personally for me the UX of filling my gas tank (done in two or three minutes) vs. having to wait 15 to 60 minutes on one of my many tri-state weekend road trips is why I'm not excited yet to buy an EV.

So I'm gonna pay tons of more money for an EV yet not being offered the same level convenience. Thus eagerly awaiting the day where the same UX is offered.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by t0mas88 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @10:33AM (#29241650)
It's being solved from both ends, on one side fast-charging is getting faster and on the other end the range is increasing. If the range is 600+ miles, you probably wouldn't mind a 30 minutes charging time because you want to stop to eat anyway.

On the other hand fast charging still has issues with capacity. If several cars want to fast-charge at the same time, there either aren't enough spots or when there are the charging rate is decreased because there isn't enough power available to fast-charge many cars. And this is with a minority of cars being electric, if everyone switches to EVs this problem becomes much bigger.

There is a lot of work to do on the grid and maybe some form of local storage of energy at larger highway charging stops.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by protomyth on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @10:51AM (#29241899)
If the range is 600+ miles

The other problem is that range estimates do not take into account cold weather and no garage. I bought a hybrid and I probably should have bought an ICE that got in the 40mpg instead of the 55mpg hybrid since winter is very bad on batteries.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by fouc on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @10:44AM (#29241789)
Yeah good point about higher range reducing the pressure on fast charging.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:14AM (#29242251)
Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” because that’s what they do with gas.

But what you would do for long road trips is fill up enough to complete the next leg of your trip. EVs charge faster the lower the battery charge is. There’s no reason why you should need to charge for 60 minutes during a road trip, unless you’re in an area where the charging network is still very underdeveloped (which is still too many places obviously).

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by greedo on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:35AM (#29242555)
I hear this all the time yet I think it's misguided. Trying to educate users that they're "holding it wrong" instead of satisfying expectations is a fundamental mistake.

For example, I make several trips each year to visit family out of state. This is in the Midwest US, where winters are no fun, and dramatically affect range for an EV. The route is roughly 400 miles, and takes about 5/12 hours. According to the route planner in my friends Model Y, I would need to make 3 stops and I'd arrive at the inlaws house with 25% charge. I'd have to charge overnight there (they won't ever have a fast charger), and that might get me to 35%, depending on the temperature. On the way home, since I'm not starting at 100% capacity, I would have to make 4 stops. This makes the trip outbound roughly 7 hours, and the trip home almost 8.

Now compare this to an ICE. We make one stop, for roughly 5 minutes to refill gas and use the bathroom. Both legs of the trip are about 6 hours tops.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by paul7986 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:51AM (#29242822)
Exactly real life experience data vs. marketing/fan enthusiasts to Telsa stockholder speak which the majority im guessing are people who rarely drive ... just out of the city to visit family and friends here and there less then 100 to 200 miles away. EVs are perfect for those city dwellers those living close to cities and those who aren't roadtrippers.

Overall EVs are not prime time ready for non city folk who want to just get in there car and go without thought vs. map out a route for charging stations and wait 15 to 60 minutes to fill based on how far the next one is and other logistics. GOing to take awhile for the infrastructure to match gas cars/stations, as well as the technology (fast charging).

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:56AM (#29242912)
I wouldn’t recommend EVs yet to people outside of major cities (in the US anyways), but that’s also only a small fraction of people.

I’m also not a Tesla stock holder, nor am I a Tesla owner, nor do I have any interest in owning a Tesla. I’m just someone who owns an EV and is quite happy with it, and feel like it’s world explaining what it’s like from first hand experience myself.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by paul7986 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:10PM (#29243142)
Sure and sounds like you live close or live in a city. I'm 35 miles north of Baltimore right over the MD/PA line (closest to York PA) and work from home. I enjoy frequent road trips to New England and to the Mid-West so I would add those who are similar roadtrippers who just want to get out and go without thought nor have to wait 15 to possibly 60 minutes to charge the car EVs aren't ready for them either.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:20PM (#29243301)
I do indeed live in/near a city, as do most people.

Obviously gas cars are better for road tripping, I never said otherwise. If you road trip every weekend then you’re going to be frustrated with an EV.

But I’ll reiterate that it is absolutely possible to road trip in an EV if you want or need to, and there is almost no reason why you should be sitting there charging it for 60 minutes assuming you are within range of other fast chargers further in your route.

If you spend most of your time driving around town and only road trip once every few months, the extra time you spend charging in the occasional road trip is generally not as big of a deal as people assume. Is it something that I personally like? Obviously it would be great if it were as fast as a gas car. But class cars have trade offs too. I haven’t had to make a separate trip to fuel my car since the last time I went on a road trip!

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @11:46AM (#29242737)
“You’re holding it wrong” was a design flaw, the fact that batteries charge faster depending on the state of the battery pack is just physics.

Unless we get to a point where charging is faster by using a linear charge rate, what I said is always going to be true.

As per what your friends Tesla says, it’s obviously optimizing for the wrong thing, but that’s because it doesn’t have the correct information. It’s still going to be based on the owner’s judgement to actually make sure to operate their vehicle correctly.

Imagine a world where everyone drove EVs and we were suddenly switching to gas cars with manual transmissions (because automatics aren’t invented yet) learning to drive stick is not going to be a pleasant experience for more people. The fact of the matter is that there are going to be things to learn when adopting a new technology.

(Plenty of people are and were completely baffled by how to use a smartphone at first too)

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by greedo on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @02:15PM (#29245123)
Oh, and side note about smartphones; this is why the iPhone was so successful. You didn't need to be a geek familiar with odd Nokia or WinCE stuff to use it.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @03:42PM (#29246122)
The iPhone was certainly way cleaner, but there are still just basic things to know about using one, that was my point.

Understanding that EVs charge faster with lower state of charge isn’t that complicated and is something people can easily understand and adapt their behavior to.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by greedo on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:01PM (#29243021)
Why do you think the route planner on the Tesla doesn't have the correct information? It knows the route, the expected electricity consumption, the location of superchargers, and the expected weather. It also has tons of information to predict how the car and battery would perform in that weather, and possibly on that exact route.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:04PM (#29243058)
It doesn’t know you’re planning to leave the next day and go back.

You weren’t complaining about how it gets you there, you were complaining that it wouldn’t have enough charge to get you back. If it knew you needed to go back the next day after slow charging overnight, it would be able to optimize for that, but clearly it doesn’t.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by greedo on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @02:16PM (#29245143)
Oh I'm most definitely complaining about how it gets me there. Having to take three stops on such a short trip, adding extra time to the trip is definitely something I wouldn't enjoy, no matter how great EV life is in the city. And since I make this trip 3-6 times per year, the frustration I would experience in this scenario makes it a non-starter.
Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @03:41PM (#29246102)
Ah see I’d make that trade if its only maybe 12 hours a year difference. The benefits of my EV overweigh that downside.

I understand that isn’t the case for everyone though.

Re:Electric vehicles could fully recharge in 5 minutes with ... by haroman on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @10:17AM (#29241453)
Yes, this makes sense. Compatibility also plays a part in here.