News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by nathanaldensr on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:00AM (#29171245)
For sites without account creation, sure, you might be losing a ton of good content... but it won't matter. The spam, harassment, trolling, illegal content, and the pinning of responsibility on the platform owner will almost certainly get you shut down. The problem of how to scale moderation of human communication is unsolved. Until it gets solved, accounts--really, identity and authentication--are not really optional... at least not on any website I would choose to run.
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by petercooper on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @06:11AM (#29173407)
One way around it in niche contexts is to run everything through a determined moderator.

It seems inactive now but Edward Tufte's forum was a great example of this – https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard – with every single post or comment being made via a basic HTML form and Tufte would then approve everything manually. This resulted in nothing but high quality (and often authoritative) discussions as you knew Tufte was directing it. Indeed, the forum even discussed the topic of content moderation once and Hacker News popped up: https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=...

This can't really work at scale, but then would I prefer to frequent a handful of gigantic forums or many Tufte sized hyperspecialized forums..? In any technical field, the latter.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by nicoburns on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @07:06AM (#29173766)
The Online Photographer is another excellent example of this approach (albeit with blog comments rather than a forum):

https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photogr...

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by gfosco on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @06:57AM (#29173690)
The interesting bit in the article for me was that if the account was required, and the lame-content posters were gone, the good-content posters also posted less (seemingly, because someone else wasn't wrong on the internet.)
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by asoneth on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @09:04AM (#29174718)
That was indeed interesting, that "for every bad contribution prevented, seven good ones never happened".

However, while it is easy to measure, I'm not convinced that "number of good contributions" is a valid proxy for "quality of discussion" or "quality of content".

For example, some of those good contributions might have been repairing the damage made by bad ones. And on a less heated/combative forum, users may feel comfortable consolidating multiple small contributions into fewer but more well-thought out contributions. And perhaps even the good contributions that were prevented were (while good) on average lower quality than the ones that remained.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by evandwight on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:55AM (#29171883)
For a community that really valued anonymous posting, couldn't you let members vouch for anonymous posts before making them visible? If no one vouches then they disappear.

Like, hacker news almost allows anonymous posting because the account creation is so simple.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by netcan on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @05:10AM (#29173046)
Maybe, but "a community that really valued anonymous posting" is likely to be defined by this value. The first "problem" is that likely use cases are users/comments/topics that aren't allowed elsewhere. So.. that community will tend to be a haven for whatever content other sites have actively ejected.

That doesn't make it impossible to have anonymous accounts, but it is a high tradeoff decision and likely a defining one.

I think it's more applicable for sites that have somewhat more objective and/or legible goals. Wiki-ish sites, for example. If there's a lot of free form discussion... anonymity is probably a bad decision for the site owner.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by evandwight on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @10:03AM (#29175327)
One of the amazing things about Reddit is how different communities compete with each other.

Allowing individual subreddits to enable anonymous posting lets the market decide if the pros outweigh the cons. (If the subreddit has a history of bad moderation, ban the subreddit)

I feel like giving communities more options in customizing the algorithm that dictates the discussion is powerful.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by netcan on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:17PM (#29177272)
Yeah. Reddit's structure gives us a lot of insight.
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by rvba on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @03:21AM (#29172344)
This will end up in a situation where some people vouch for illegal stuff because they like it, or "for the lulz".

For example there were multiple "name a product" contests raided by trolls- because nobody moderated the inputs.

HN has its own problems: the "flag" feature is abused by brigaders to censor content.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by lolc on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @05:34AM (#29173188)
You can ban the lulzers who vouch for stuff you don't want.
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by dangerface on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @06:00AM (#29173339)
If its an anonymous community you can't they will just switch to a different ip on their vpn etc unless you can deanonomise them
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by LordDragonfang on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @06:41AM (#29173599)
The proposed community still has non-anonymous members who could accrue good standing, it just also allows anonymous posting.
Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by easton on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @08:53AM (#29174622)
Hacker News allows it (how else are you gonna get that hot FAANG goss?) but it's actively discouraged:

"Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by gfosco on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @07:04AM (#29173746)
HN has the flagging system, votes, regulars, and the mods.. and it scales very well they are always on top of it.

Gab, the free speech social network, deals with this topic a lot... and likewise does moderation with a flagging system, volunteers, group mods, and site mods. The community is far larger, but our policies are much simpler to compensate.

Re:The Costs of Requiring Accounts by kordlessagain on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @10:34AM (#29175756)
The first part of solving this problem may lie in tying identity with micro payments to make and read updates/comments on content. We would do this by implementing the 402 HTTP code stub using the Lightning Network. There already exists a proxy to implement this: https://github.com/lightninglabs/aperture

The second part of implementing this is to increase the cost of producing bad content for a particular identity. Using a proof of stake type system based on the identity and content, not the coin itself, might allow decent scaling of moderation.

> work by selecting validators in proportion to their quantity of holdings

In this particular case, the comments on the content (holdings) become the selecting validators. The more high quality validations through consensus of other identities, the cheaper it becomes to comment as a particular identity. If the identity becomes a bad actor later, subsequent consensus from other identities increases the cost of that identity posting new content related (through identity) to their older, higher quality content. In a way, the content an identity produces becomes their "ego" or "account".

But, by using crypto identities, no "account" is needed. A tag may be added to the content in a particular system to indicate which transaction and identity was responsible for paying to add that content. The system remains secure for privacy of participating individuals, other than what they leak through posting their thoughts to a public forum.