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Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by dmbaggett on Saturday November 06, 2021 @04:30PM (#29133565)
I’m a co-founder of ITA Software (now Google Flights), and people often assume that we at ITA thought Sabre and predecessors like the one mentioned here were crap. On the contrary: I, at least, think they were among the greatest software achievements of their era.

What was less impressive was airlines still relying on the same code 40+ years later: the challenge we set for ourselves was to bring the power engendered by all those years of hardware improvement (and Linux boxes vs mainframes) to bear on the travel industry. And we did that successfully for fare search!

We then tried and failed to do the same for the much larger challenge of the reservation system (think airline operating system).

I distinctly remember philg (OP) visiting ITA’s crappy office in Kendall Square circa 1998, telling us we were all wasting our time trying to improve airline IT. In retrospect it’s “a cautionary tale” (quoting Phil’s post): knowledgeable people often overstate the advantages of the incumbents and underplay the value of luck and timing to startups.

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by rchowe on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:22PM (#29133911)
ITA Matrix is a great tool for a power user to search for flights, and the time bar view is brilliant. Google's done a pretty good job with Google Flights, but there are still crazy things you can build in ITA Matrix that it's tough to find anywhere else (unless you are/know a travel agent and/or have a GDS). I've said for a while that if Google ever kills off matrix.itasoftware.com I would build a replica.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by pinko on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:46PM (#29134091)
If Google does ever kills off matrix.itasoftware.com, and you build a replica, I would pay for it and/or help you to the extent possible.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by a_t48 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @08:25PM (#29135206)
Do you have an example of what ITA Matrix can do?
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by labcomputer on Saturday November 06, 2021 @10:45PM (#29136082)
"Give me a list of all flights originating at LAX, SFO, SEA and terminating at JFK or MIA, with at least one connection in either SLC or MSP with a minimum connection time of 3 hours and include every airline except Delta and Spirit. Do not include results if they require more stops than the minimum possible stops"

Origin: "LAX, SFO, SEA" Destination: "JFK, MIA" Outbound routing codes: "SLC,MSP ~DL,F9+" Outbound extension codes: "MINCONNECT 3:00" Extra stops -> No Extra Stops.

You can also use extension codes to find flights based on duration or number of miles flown.

Edit: Actually a better example to show the power of ITA would be something like "~DL,AA,UA SLC,MSP AA" for the outbound routing code, which says "don't use Delta, American or United for the first segment (to SLC/MSP) and do use American for the second segment (from SLC/MSP)"

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by apaprocki on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:18PM (#29136259)
This kind of software is what I lump into the category of "just give me regular expressions". There's so many interfaces that would be simplified by (hard!) standardizing textual abbreviations and providing something powerful like regular expressions.

I'm currently shopping for expansion PEX (a.k.a. F1960) fittings and it drives me up a wall when all you want is sizeA: 1", sizeB: 1", typeA: F1960, typeB: MNPT and all you can use is a free text query. Search for '1" F1960 MNPT' or equivalent and you get back all kinds of things that have nothing to do with what you searched for. That's par for the course when businesses don't have what you want and they're trying to give you anything to not have zero results -- but in this case they do have the parts, their crap search just doesn't return them. Try searching for PEX-A vs PEX-B at Home Depot and it's clear many people will accidentally buy the wrong thing.

Airline searches (for me, at least) were very similar. 99% of engines would not give you results spanning across two tickets (no codeshare agreement) or take into account human factors. More recently, search results started to show "pain factor" mostly as an amount of connection time or overall trip time. That (again, for me) is not pain -- pain is connecting in LHR or CDG when you could connect in VIE or WAW. Or worse, getting some flight pushed in your face on a single ticket that has a LHR/LGW transfer vs. two separate tickets in a much smaller airport further east. Similarly, why not offer a plane type filter on every search? Pain is flying on some 20-30 year old airframe on a big airline instead of a Dreamliner on a smaller one. (LOT, if you're interested... :))

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by rchowe on Sunday November 07, 2021 @12:59AM (#29136715)
I'd argue ITA Matrix serves folks that know airports and aircraft well enough to figure the human factors in their heads (e.g. if you can fly Delta and connect in either AMS or CDG, choose AMS), and just want to find a valid solution set at the lowest price for a query. The lack of split ticketing means you will be protected in the case of a misconnect.

I'd say this is a good case for a declarative language like SQL or Prolog: "just give me X that satisfies Y and Z, I don't care how you get it." Existing search engines either have a painful number of dropdown menus or are free-text only with limited power user features.

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by ngcc_hk on Sunday November 07, 2021 @10:54AM (#29140467)
I would say network graphic operational research code more. May be the interface is like regular expression. But wonder underlying code is not.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by dzhiurgis on Saturday November 06, 2021 @09:42PM (#29135673)
Google Flights routinely serves me economy class seats as business or flight prices suddenly change on last screen or you have to call a phone to book...
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by dzhiurgis on Sunday November 07, 2021 @05:09PM (#29143987)
Since I'm getting downvoted, here's some examples:

Economy class seats at business class fare:

https://www.google.com/travel/flights/booking?tfs=CBwQAhpfag...

This one changes from 5k to 9k to a whopping 26k:

https://www.google.com/flights?tfs=CBoQAho-EgoyMDIyLTAzLTI5I...

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by 3dbrows on Saturday November 06, 2021 @04:49PM (#29133700)
As someone who worked on timetabling databases and pricing services at Skyscanner, I appreciate just what a phenomenal achievement ITA is. Very well done sir.

There is still so, so much innovation that the flights travel industry is ripe for.

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by tyingq on Saturday November 06, 2021 @07:17PM (#29134780)
ITA did do a nice job of kicking companies like Sabre and Amadeus into action. I don't know if Sabre ever got there, but Amadeus does now have customers with no transactions flowing through a TPF mainframe, including the reservations part.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by ahefner on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:21PM (#29133895)
Did you ever consider starting a small airline as customer #0 for the reservation system?
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by Marazan on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:45PM (#29134078)
You don't make money in the airline industry by being an airline.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by midasuni on Sunday November 07, 2021 @04:12AM (#29137711)
The best way to become a millionaire through airlines is to start as a billionaire
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by dzhiurgis on Saturday November 06, 2021 @09:44PM (#29135685)
I used to joke Ryanair makes money by selling tickets, vapes and (soon) condoms.

TBH still kinda good airline for short flights. It's the clientele that makes it less palatable.

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by refurb on Sunday November 07, 2021 @01:37AM (#29136844)
Didn’t the CEO of Ryanair say he was going to make tickets free at some point?

I mean the fare would be super basic, no luggage, only what can go under the seat. No water, food. Print your own ticket, etc.

Basically all your margin is on the extras which many people are willing to pay (as long as you’re upfront about it).

I remember flying Ryanair and if you’re prepared to follow directions, it can be very cheap.

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by ghaff on Saturday November 06, 2021 @06:48PM (#29134573)
I don't know if it's still true. Probably not. But at one point in the past 10 or 15 years I heard the (what seemed to me credible) claim that, taken as a whole, the commercial airline industry had never made money.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by nradov on Saturday November 06, 2021 @07:00PM (#29134652)
The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.

-- Warren Buffett, in the 2007 Berkshire Hathaway shareholder letter

Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by bobthepanda on Saturday November 06, 2021 @10:10PM (#29135887)
COVID was easily the worst thing that has happened to the airline industry bar none. ICAO estimates that 2020 resulted in $371B in losses.
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by 6502nerdface on Saturday November 06, 2021 @07:46PM (#29134937)
...or selling a live feed of airline KPI estimates to quantitative hedge funds and market research companies?
Re:A 1958 UNIVAC airline reservation system by ahefner on Sunday November 07, 2021 @12:32AM (#29136597)
Evil genius. You should work for Google.