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Re:Some new BMWs won't have touchscreens thanks to chip shor... by chrisseaton on Saturday November 06, 2021 @03:48PM (#29133258)
> which I will not visit

This is a bizarre reason to refuse to understand something - you can find these laws yourself in seconds, either the original legislation, or references to it in the media, by Googling for them.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/02/backup-cameras-now-required-...

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-110publ189/pdf/PLAW...

> I know a case is weak

Well take it up with the US and EU governments! I didn't write the laws - I'm just telling you what it is and why they introduced it.

You have to follow the law - and have a backup camera and screen in a new car - for other people's safety whether you like it or not! Just like you have to wear your seatbelt.

Re:Some new BMWs won't have touchscreens thanks to chip shor... by javajosh on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:42PM (#29134058)
> I didn't write the laws

Not sure what your angle here is, but you clearly aren't an unbiased commenter. You have gone on and on about how many lives this law has saved, and how dangerous it is to drive without a screen and so on. So yes, I do expect you to make a better case rather than walk around acting as if yours is the foregone conclusion, obvious and right (of course, because it's for the children!)

You still have not responded to my central claim that these screens claim far, far more lives than they save.

Re:Some new BMWs won't have touchscreens thanks to chip shor... by chrisseaton on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:56PM (#29134166)
My position is supported by the professionals in the US, Canada, and EU who spend their entire working lives studying safety issues and trade-offs and making recommendations for legislation.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/811024.pdf

> a statistically significant 28 percent reduction in crashes

You:

> You still have not responded to my central claim that these screens claim far, far more lives than they save.

Them:

> no evidence to support the hypothesis that driver’s backing behavior (i.e. speed and acceleration) was influenced by the presence of absence of an RV system

People said the kind of things that you're saying about seatbelts when they came out - they thought they'd get trapped and didn't want to wear them. At some point you have to listen to the studies not just gut instinct.

Re:Some new BMWs won't have touchscreens thanks to chip shor... by javajosh on Saturday November 06, 2021 @07:31PM (#29134873)
You are ignoring my claim.

Let's assume that these screens eliminate 100% of all deaths and accidental injury from backing up.

My point is that does not outweigh the number of deaths that are caused when the screen distracts the driver and causes a crash. This happens frequently, at higher speeds, and with worse consequences. Worse, I bet these crashes are grossly under-reported because no-one is going to admit being distracted by a screen, and so accepting liability.

As for gut instinct, mine has nothing to do with it. I have been in enough close calls with other distracted drivers, and I have seen the PSAs about not driving distracted, to know that it's a 10 kdeath/yr issue, not a 100 death/yr issue.

I'm going to disengage because there's something about this whole interaction that doesn't sit right with me.

Re:Some new BMWs won't have touchscreens thanks to chip shor... by chrisseaton on Saturday November 06, 2021 @07:47PM (#29134943)
> not outweigh the number of deaths that are caused when the screen distracts the driver and causes a crash

You could disable the screens while driving forward or at higher speed if you think that's important for safety. But we shouldn't remove them.

Re:Some new BMWs won't have touchscreens thanks to chip shor... by touisteur on Sunday November 07, 2021 @09:53AM (#29139885)
I actually think it's a good idea to leave the screen in for rear/parking, and disable it while driving at higher speed.

And I feel the same for the baseband chip (phone and data), speaker, noise-notification in phones. Yes I'm punishing passengers, waze, etc, but the #1 (observed) danger these days to me, cyclist and pedestrian, is the driver's phone. It's such a problem, I feel we're not being serious about it.