News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by headphoneswater on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:35AM (#29063027)
It's hard to argue with results we haven't experianced any terrorist attacks on that scale since it was put into law.

Maybe my freedom is being infinged somehow but I haven't noticed it

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by aaronbrethorst on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:37AM (#29063329)
Homer : Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job.

Lisa : That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer : Thank you, sweetie.

Lisa : Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.

Homer : Uh-huh, and how does it work?

Lisa : It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.

Homer : I see.

Lisa : But you don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer : Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by cm2187 on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:48AM (#29064311)
To the OP’s defence, there has been numerous, large scale murderous terrorist attacks in Europe over the same period, so it’s not like if there was no bear in sight.

Now you can debate whether it is the result of good policing or of a much smaller muslim immigration or some other factor.

[dead]
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by aaronbrethorst on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:58AM (#29063764)
Frankly I’m disappointed you didn’t call me a “sheeple,” but I’ll let it go because I’m excited to meet the one person in the United States who still must like Dick Cheney. Hi!

(Or are you referring to the person I replied to…?)

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by craftinator on Monday November 01, 2021 @06:46AM (#29065050)
And it's a bit late to edit, but I really did want to use sheeple... Just felt too obtuse, I wanted to be just a little more circumspect.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by craftinator on Monday November 01, 2021 @06:19AM (#29064866)
> (Or are you referring to the person I replied to…?)

Well, this is awkward... Yes.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by rembicilious on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:42AM (#29063062)
The USA didn’t have any terror attacks on that scale before 9/11 either.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by kevin_thibedeau on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:04AM (#29063787)
Imagine you were an Iraqi minding your own business and 100x more of your friends and family were killed by bombs from a foreign attack.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by gremlinsinc on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:43AM (#29063362)
Was gonna reply w/ something like this but we did have a few... Germans invaded near the statue of liberty and blew shit up (ww1).... and Pearl Harbor...those were technically acts of war, but amounts to the same, and the sinking of the Luscitania...

But, for the most part America has been safe before and after the one isolated event of 9/11 and there's no proof that anything we've done since has made us safer (likely it's had the opposite effect by stirring up animosity).

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by nsonha on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:05AM (#29064114)
no proof but I thought increased airport security must have caught some stuff.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by greenyoda on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:11AM (#29064444)
If the first World Trade Center attack in 1993 would have been more successful, it could have killed thousands of people - the bomb was intended to topple Tower 1 into Tower 2, bringing both down.[1] Luckily, it only ended up killing 6 and injuring 1000.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombin...

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by s5300 on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:04AM (#29063167)
Pretty sure it's been admitted that many programs viable because of the Patriot Act have stopped absolutely zero terrorist attacks and have indeed completely infringed upon your freedoms.

https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/nsa-phone-surveillance-illeg...

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by headphoneswater on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:13AM (#29063205)
That's hard to believe, we essentialy won the war on terror

here's a real report not a political charged blog: https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_...

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by raxxorrax on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:49AM (#29064014)
> we essentialy won the war on terror

Are you serious? The US looks terribly weak against terror because the fear alone makes them infringe on civil liberties on a massive and broad scale.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by s5300 on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:39AM (#29063342)
Really?

Last I saw we just surrendered to the Taliban, freed 5000 of them including the current leader, the insurgency is now the de-facto government of Afghanistan, and we recently had a high profile journalist hacked to pieces with a hand saw in an embassy and didn't do a damn thing about it.

How is the war on terror "essentially won" in your eyes?

Also, for your bit about being hard to believe - the agency reported it themselves, so you're essentially saying you believe nothing except that which conforms to your existing world view. Not sure what to say about that.

[dead]
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by tremon on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:36AM (#29064600)
How do you determine legitimacy in this case? Because they were the first to claim that power after driving out Afghanistan's royal family?
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by throwaway0a5e on Monday November 01, 2021 @06:58AM (#29065138)
Yeah that's pretty much it. Possession is 9/10ths the law.

They might have had poor taste in house guests (which cost them a generation of war) but they are the legitimate government of Afghanistan

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by catlikesshrimp on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:01AM (#29064378)
The rule of force. Legitimated by violence. We don't share the same values. What you call legitimate I call factual.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by s5300 on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:53AM (#29063739)
Ahh, just like greater North Western Taiwan.

Northern Alliance must've been some pretty bad dudes too.

Ironically, if we want to go by your definitions, Afghanistan doesn't exist, therefore nor does a government. It's a construct of the West.

In the reality you're trying to suggest, that entire region exists as a bunch of regional tribes, perhaps more like the Emir(ates). Unfortunately, they are not United.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by vmception on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:02AM (#29064088)
No, they’re saying that targeting the Taliban was incorrect and illegitimate scope creep, perpetuated by war hawks who needed to conflate the Taliban as an enemy and mislead the American public with incoherent Islamaphobia.

The US mandate against the Taliban was to prevent Al Queda from using the Taliban’s military infrastructure.

The Taliban was never officially deemed a terrorist organization, or a non-state enemy combatant, and only Pakistan was ever involved (instructed) to arrest or detain Taliban operatives and leaders. (That being said, due to the consequence free nature and lack of oversight, Taliban operatives were targeted and killed fairly indiscriminately especially by the drone pogroms.)

Despite the lack of distinction made to the Americans who were needed to remain scared and confused to support the expensive operation, the war time and diplomatic efforts mostly distinguished between Al Queda and the Taliban.

Its just US news and leaders who were playing US and NATO’s people for two decades straight.

This discussion isn't about the tribal nature of that region, which is valid. You’re absolutely right that the “government” and even the nation state concept can be ignored there. Unless you are a woman with different aspirations than what the governing authority says. But thats not this discussion.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by amcoastal on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:07AM (#29064123)
Plenty of other people have responded to this comment, I don't have much to add except that you're literally the first person I've ever heard even suggest this.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by vmception on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:21AM (#29063242)
You should read literally anything from the last 15 years, especially from rights groups. EFF, ACLU, watchdogs, thinktanks.

If you only respect government sources then the GAO has plenty of gems on this topic.

I’ll make a separate comment for my other thoughts

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by busymom0 on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:39AM (#29064616)
ACLU has gone to crap in the last few years unfortunately. It's been fully co-opted by the democrats for many years. Just like the SPLC, ADL etc. Look at where vast majority of their donations come from.

1. ACLU actively gives their data to Facebook:

https://www.axios.com/aclu-data-shares-facebook-4f1d21f4-d43...

https://fortune.com/2021/04/02/aclu-shares-data-facebook-thi...

2. ACLU claims Second Amendment is Racist

> "Racism is foundational to the Second Amendment and its inclusion in the Bill of Rights." https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1419294620417155074

Fun fact: Vermont ratified the individual right to gun ownership and the abolishing of slavery in their State Constitution at the same time in 1777. The second amendment actually helped defeat racism and the only thing racist about it is the disproportionate infringement against minorities.

> Vermont’s Declaration of Rights of 1777 set forth the following fundamental rights and abolished slavery: That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent, and unalienable rights, amongst which are the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. Therefore, no male person, born in this country, or brought from over sea, ought to be holden by law, to serve any person, as a servant, slave, or apprentice, after he arrives to the age of twenty-one years; nor female, in like manner, after she arrives to the age of eighteen years.

> Vt. Constitution, Art. I, § 1 (1777). See Zilversmit at 116. The Vermont Declaration also provided: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State . . . .” Id., § 15.

3. ACLU used to defend free speech of even neo-nazis but have since then abandoned their principles:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstain...

4. ACLU's most famous lawyer calls JK Rowling and Abigail Shrier "white supremacists" without any proof whatsoever:

https://twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1358246098364583936...

The same lawyer has also called for banning of Abigail Shrier's book.

5. Last year, they warned against using COVID-19 passport systems as they endanger privacy rights by creating a new surveillance infrastructure to collect health data which has the potential of mission creep to expand into other areas such as conditioning travel or access to housing. Such status may be stored with other personal details, such as travel, employment, or housing information, heightening the intrusiveness of an immunity passport system. They recommended focussing on the implementation of widespread, free, and quick testing, without creating a new privacy-invasive infrastructure that threatens everyone’s rights.

https://archive.is/5KrP8

But now, ACLU claims ‘Vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties’:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vaccine-mandates-actually-...

The ACLU, Prior to COVID, Denounced Mandates and Coercive Measures to Fight Pandemics. Now, they have completely reversed its views, arguing vaccine mandates help civil liberties and bodily autonomy "is not absolute."

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-aclu-prior-to-covid-den...

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by vmception on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:52AM (#29064034)
How do you believe we have won the war on terror?

We have very visible and emboldened domestic terror groups despite whatever state preemptive capabilities the Patriot Act brought in

And for Islamic extremists, the US mainland was barely ever the target. It just remains an eligible target due to an interpretation of jihad as long as we are seen as an invader in traditionally islamic lands.

Al Queda has more extreme offshoots which have destabilized regions including the effects of so many refugees sent all over the mediterranean

Strict Shariah from “not terrorist groups” are back in force despite 20 years of US wasting its resources and dividing itself over the budget overruns. This includes the extreme interpretation of Jihad that endangers US and all NATO countries.

Can you tell me more about your influences? Like how is your world, your newsfeeds, thrown you into such a niche where you can only regurgitate a 17-year old DOJ report to support it and believe it

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by pvaldes on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:53AM (#29064340)
> we won the war on terror

Apart of the zombie outbreak at January trying to hang the vice president in the damned Capitol of the USA all looks fine, yep

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by craftinator on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:41AM (#29063682)
> we essentialy won the war on terror

Are you from Afghanistan by any chance? Or are you trolling way too hard?

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by voldacar on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:38AM (#29063041)
I have some astrological services to sell you
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by CalChris on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:54AM (#29063406)
Boston Marathon bombing.

San Bernadino shootings.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by KennyBlanken on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:19AM (#29063859)
The Boston Marathon bombing is another example of the US intelligence community knowing about the danger. The Russians rang us up and said "hey these two traveled to and from a known terrorist training camp", and everyone just shrugged.

Day-of, the bomb sniffing dogs left the finish line area when the VIPs did.

Not long after, the bombers set up their bombs...

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by nsonha on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:07AM (#29064124)
speaking of shooting, not a single thing changed because no evident the sugested changes would help
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by nsonha on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:34AM (#29063317)
Didn’t someone in CIA claim they had all the data that could uncover the attack plan, just didn’t have enough analysts for that to have happened?

If that is true then increasing surveillance would not change a thing, at the end data collected will just sit there untouched, or waiting to be abused.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by aaronbrethorst on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:38AM (#29063338)
Bush was warned over a month before the attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike...
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by craftinator on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:43AM (#29063690)
My favorite part was when he knee-jerk reacted to the towers being bombed by invading 2 countries that we knew had nothing to do with it.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by kuraudo on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:49AM (#29063724)
Still waiting on Saudi Arabia invasion (not that I believe that would be the proper answer either, but still).
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by catlikesshrimp on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:06AM (#29064408)
Saudi Arabia is an ally, an a bussiness partner
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by lamontcg on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:10PM (#29068701)
You misspelled Iran.

Trump gave it a shot by assassinating Soleimani, the Iranians just didn't retaliate enough to provide justification.

Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by raxxorrax on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:51AM (#29064026)
Never let a crisis go to waste for strategical ambitions I guess.
Re:The Patriot Act Has Threatened Freedom for 20 Years by gitgud on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:23AM (#29063575)
Correlation does not imply causation...