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Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by stcredzero on Friday August 29, 2008 @02:01PM (#290253)
Also, this eliminates the gaming of downmods. A few downmods early in the life of a headline are very significant, so it's easy to game this with just a few cohorts. A few upmods are also significant, but this is often dwarfed by the deluge of upmods on a genuinely popular link. The action of the crowd doesn't have as strong a self-correcting effect on downmod conspiracy, because the crowd's exposure to the downmodded links is lessened.

There is a parallel in behavioral psychology: punishment can be a powerful tool, but can often backfire. So positive reinforcement is seen by many as the preferred tool.

Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by Hexstream on Friday August 29, 2008 @04:39PM (#290427)
If you're so worried about downmods early in the life of a submission, how about this:

Between P and P + H, where P is when the submission was Posted and H is some (constant?) number of hours, any downmods on the submission increment the downmod count but this has no effect whatsoever on the ranking. When we hit P + H, the downmods are made effective. An upmod on a story cancels a downmod.

Then if a story has lots of inappropriate early downmods but is actually interesting, it will get high on the front page and the mass of legitimate upmods will cancel the illegitimate downmods.

Showing the number of effective downmods (abs (- downmods upmods)) on a story might or might not be appropriate.

Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by stcredzero on Saturday August 30, 2008 @06:29AM (#290795)
The simplest thing that culd possibly work: just leave the feature out. Less code that way.
Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by Hexstream on Saturday August 30, 2008 @08:20PM (#291136)
Implementing that feature would likely take less characters than it took me to explain it. It's more a matter of is it a good idea at all, so unless you can come up with a scenario where we end up worse with this feature than without...
Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by raganwald on Friday August 29, 2008 @02:03PM (#290255)
That's probably the "real" reason we don't have downmods. Thanks for the insight, that hadn't occurred to me.
Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by stcredzero on Friday August 29, 2008 @02:09PM (#290258)
I am certain that it happened on reddit. In fact, there were occasions where the conspirators would go to the list of your past submissions and give you a little extra punishment to further discourage you from posting. I only had a few submissions at the time, and they were months old, so I am certain that this is what happened.

Apparently a lot of this has been addressed on reddit with some clever code. I think it's far cleverer to just leave the feature out!

Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by raganwald on Friday August 29, 2008 @02:15PM (#290265)
I stopped using reddit after several such incidents with my raganwald account. After disagreeing with certain users there, suddenly all of my comments and posts would get downmodded in my history.

At first this would cause a karma hit, so I tried a workaround: after my submissions peaked, I would delete them and this would present a smaller surface area for revenge attacks.

This turned out to be a bad idea because it deprived reddit of the history. So I switched to a new tactic: I simply stopped participating in the forums and started submitting things under a nom de plume.

I think that they have changed things so that revenge downmods do not affect karma, but it doesn't matter to me. I stopped one day and asked myself why I was bothering to worry about my reddit karma?

Then I asked why I was bothering with reddit?

Then I closed up the nom de plume and HN is the only such site I visit. And let me tell you, I am a far, far happier man for it :-)

Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by jcl on Friday August 29, 2008 @02:40PM (#290305)
I note that HN also discourages historic downmods. I can't downmod any posts older than a day (but I can upmod them).
Re:Thank goodness we don't have downmods on HN by stcredzero on Saturday August 30, 2008 @06:31AM (#290798)
Yup, I only visit reddit now to see what the masses are up to.