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Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by concinds on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:08PM (#29006278)
I will say, requiring 12 year olds to have a vaccine passport to enter public places (as is the case in much of Western Europe) is as cyberpunk-dystopian as things get, given the hospitalization numbers. A clear result of lobbying.
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:17PM (#29006364)
Even having it for adults is quite dystopian to me! If the vaccine is voluntary then businesses should not force others to have it.

Edit: I’d also add of course government entities or government-owned institutions such as schools! I’ve heard that some public high schools in California will require a vaccination card!, which, in my opinion, is quite extreme.

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by acdha on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:43PM (#29006704)
> I’ve heard that some public high schools in California will require a vaccination card!, which, in my opinion, is quite extreme.

Do you have children? Public schools have had vaccination requirements going back to the middle of the 19th Century. If you live in California, starting before kindegarten students are required to be vaccinated against polio, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, varicella, Haemophilus influenzae, measles, mumps, and rubella. They also recommend Hep B and meningococcal vaccines but the latter are only required for college students.

https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/

This is true in most of the civilized world because vaccines have changed those diseases from something my parents' generation knew as the reason why the neighbor kid died or was crippled for life to something you learn about in history class.

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @06:22PM (#29007120)
> Do you have children? Public schools have had vaccination requirements going back to the middle of the 19th Century.

No, I’m a teenager. I didn’t know vaccination requirements were that strict/common. I vaguely remember being asked about it maybe in elementary school but right now I’m in high school and I wasn’t asked any of that to enter (for context, I go to a private high school in Mexico).

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by acdha on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @06:33PM (#29007225)
This might be of interest: note that the first U.S. government vaccine mandate was in 1777, which George Washington required smallpox inoculation for the soldiers, and the first school mandate was in 1855:

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/all

I would suspect that you would probably have heard about this in a public school and it's also possible that this was handled by your parents without you being aware of it. It's very routine here — my son would have no idea this had happened since his doctor's office sends the records directly to the school nurse.

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by peteradio on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @07:09PM (#29007546)
Wouldn't the analog of George Washington intentionally exposing his soldiers to small pox be more similar to getting covid on purpose?
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by acdha on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @07:40PM (#29007854)
There was a few centuries of experience with smallpox inoculations in China when the Europeans adopted the practice so it was known that the cases produced that way would be less severe on average — something like an order of magnitude fewer people dying from inoculation than contracting it naturally.

There's an interesting chart here showing what that looked like in Boston with the death rate falling off as inoculations picked up in the 1700s and then significantly dropping when the first vaccines were used in 1800:

https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/special-edition-on-infect...

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by peteradio on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @08:10PM (#29008077)
Interesting thanks!
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by acdha on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:19PM (#29008545)
My wife's an AP biology teacher so we've talked about this a fair amount over the years since she's found the history is often a good hook for students.

If you want another interesting bit of history, the Balmis expedition in 1803 is fascinating, too. Smallpox was a huge problem in the New World so Jenner's discovery that cowpox protected against smallpox was of enormous interest but they didn't have an easy way to transport since the trip took longer than the 10-12 days someone would be contagious.

They ended up taking a 22 orphans and infecting them with cowpox two at a time using a sample of the pus from the previous pair, which worked well enough to reach Mexico via the Canary Islands and Puerto Rico, and then from Mexico they repeated the process with 25 new orphans all the way to the Philippines.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/41/9/1285/278013

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by peteradio on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @10:00PM (#29008776)
Wow good thing they had a plentiful supply of orphans! Bleck! Haha thanks!
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by acdha on Wednesday October 27, 2021 @07:10AM (#29011642)
Yeah, that one hit me with a nice case of culture shock, too — imagine going to a modern IRB saying you wanted to try an new experimental treatment on poor kids and getting the response “great idea, they should be grateful for the food!”
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by ryanobjc on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:34PM (#29006592)
Every kid already has a vaccine card. This is one ore row on it.

A lot of hyperbole for something that’s been here for the better part of a century.

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:47PM (#29006750)
Yes, but I'd consider it extreme for businesses and other entities who do not need that personal information ask for it, I also have some sort of vaccination record but I rarely take it out or show it to someone.
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by lghh on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:22PM (#29006447)
Businesses should not be forced to do business with someone they don't want to do business with.
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:27PM (#29006507)
Fair enough, but couldn’t a ban on people who do not have the vaccine be considered as discrimination ? Since when does an ice cream shop ask you if you already had your flu shot ?
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by ceejayoz on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:30PM (#29006533)
Discrimination by itself is perfectly legal. I can refuse to do business with redheads, or vegans, or people whose name is Bob. Discrimination based on certain specific categories is illegal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:45PM (#29006729)
Wow, I did not know that. I honestly don't know how to make a counterargument to this.
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by pfarrell on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:30PM (#29006539)
Covid-19 is not the flu.
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by verdverm on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @06:21PM (#29007108)
It is also not measles or mumps, and arguably much closer to the flu than the aforementioned.

Some vaccines confer life time immunity and others reduce severity.

Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:41PM (#29006681)
But won't herd immunity become a thing with covid-19 ?
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by r00fus on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:20PM (#29006413)
Nothing in this article talks about a vax passport. We haven't even done that for adults, much less children.
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by packetlost on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:23PM (#29006450)
Who is we? The King County area in Washington USA is starting to enforce presenting proof of vaccination to enter businesses: https://kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/re...
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by ceejayoz on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:24PM (#29006465)
Missed the "or a negative test" bit?
Re:FDA advisory panel recommends Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine be ... by concinds on Wednesday October 27, 2021 @05:00AM (#29010931)
The whole "or a negative test" thing is clearly going away. It was added to make the pill easier to swallow at first; but governments (again, at least in Western Europe) seem to be getting a bit desperate to increase vaccination rates, and are making tests very very cost prohibitive (50€ per test, and you need a new test every 2-3 days), and are likely to remove that option altogether at some point. A pretty obvious slippery slope in hindsight: governments never let a crisis go to waste.