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Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by yawnr on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:31AM (#29000168)
My question is what constitutes a public post? I feel like that definition is evolving. Is a WhatsApp group with 1k members spreading disinformation still a private message?
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by dilippkumar on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @02:56PM (#29004676)
> Is a WhatsApp group with 1k members spreading disinformation still a private message?

Yes it is.

A “public post” is when the message was directed towards anyone who cares to listen.

A “private post” is when the message was directed to a specific group of recipients. The length of the list of recipients doesn’t grant a non-recipient access rights to the message.

This is easy stuff.

Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by ryandrake on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @11:41AM (#29001793)
The distinction between "public" and "private" is gray and messy when it comes to corporate social media platforms. Is anything really private? How do you send a message to someone in Messenger? You're not sending the HTTP request to person X. You're sending it to Facebook with metadata that says "please make this visible to person X and consider it private". Then Facebook keeps the message and decides whether or not to publish it onward to person X, and whether or not to display it to anyone else (internally, externally, in logs, etc.). It's not like a package that gets sent over to person X's house. It stays on Facebook's property at all times.

When you post something to "your" feed, you're sending it to Facebook with metadata that says "please post this on my wall" or whatever.

To strain an analog analogy, this is not like the telephone or even the post office, where you hand them something or send out voice packets and they just look at the recipient and forward it on to the actual person. Everything you send is sent to Facebook and kept at Facebook.

Replace "Facebook" above with any social media platform or cloud service. They're fundamentally the same. I don't consider iCloud photos private. You're sending your content to Apple, not putting it in some safe that you alone control.

Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by 6510 on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @12:48PM (#29002745)
> Then Facebook keeps the message and decides whether or not to publish it onward to person X

An interesting weird angle: If X deletes their whatsApp account messages fail silently. FB stores the message under the false pretense that they are able to forward it to X. I think imessage does the same?

Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by tqi on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @12:43PM (#29002673)
Furthermore, aligning on a definition is only half the battle. If you create some arbitrary line (100+ = public), forums will break up in into many groups of 99. Or it will switch to viral messages that are forwarded in 1:1 threads. There is a the fundamental asymmetry between bad actors (who are highly sophisticated) and regular users (who are generally unsophisticated) that makes it really hard to roll out tools / rules that have both high precision and high recall.
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by gnramires on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @02:33PM (#29004341)
It really does not seem like a terrible idea to set off an arbitrary point at say 50 or 100 messages. Not everyone is going to be happy, sure, but it's clear.

More important I think is the kind of "control" that's exerted: it of course should be around developing factually accurate sources and promoting those instead (maybe a warning "This post contains keywords detected anonymously that suggest misinformation. Here is an alternative position"

The fundamental problem is that we are building our entire lives around a few systems that are completely opaque. Facebook, Google, and many other algorithms are still closed source, and to their own detriment they cannot reveal details of their inner workings. That's why we need a way to move to a radically open society that still allows for innovation and advanced technology.

Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by tinco on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @01:05PM (#29003003)
As far as I know, legally speaking it would be a private message if the members were all members of a legal entity like a business. I.e. subject of this HN article is a private message to the Facebook organisation which clearly has over 1000 members.

I also think legally, but this may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, a message to one thousand people that you do not know personally and you are not in an organisation with, or that organisation has an open access policy (even if there's an entrance fee) would be a public message.

Of course, IANAL and just learned this from reading the news.

More interestingly however, is what Facebook or other media should consider public. In my opinion a WhatsApp group with 1k members should not be considered public, even if there's absolutely no bar to entry. Private companies should have no business policing private communities. If they've got concerns they should invite law enforcement to decide if there's any laws that are being broken.

The moment when communication becomes public is when the communication goes outside the boundaries of the group. If my antivax aunt posts an edutainment video about how vaccinations cause autism and it is clear that it is misinformation, and that edutainment video is not just in her group of weirdo's, but actually shared on her public timeline, in my opinion Facebook should definitely come down with the ban hammer. There should be a little "report" flag that I'll use to snitch on my aunt. Even if it's on her "friends & family" timeline I wouldn't consider it private for the purpose of culling misinformation. She should specifically select a group of people who have self-selected to be in that group for it to be considered a private message.

Also, if a private group on a platform like Facebook/Whatsapp has members that are underage, and not all members are in a complete graph of direct friends/family, Facebook should require that group to have active moderation that conforms to some sort of platform wide code of conduct.

Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by boringg on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:44AM (#29000293)
Yes, that is definitely a public post.
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by nradov on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @10:08AM (#29000582)
There are plenty of private email lists with 1000+ members. Should email providers be censoring misinformation in those messages?
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by samhw on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:56AM (#29000421)
And what about 100? 25? 10?
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by 6510 on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @12:51PM (#29002793)
Depends on the type of invitation.
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by sangnoir on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @04:13PM (#29005682)
The invitation type can change at any time.
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by tacitusarc on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:36AM (#29000215)
Yes.
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by WillPostForFood on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:47AM (#29000323)
How about a WhatsApp group with 20 family members?
Re:My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook ... by tacitusarc on Wednesday October 27, 2021 @12:04AM (#29009424)
That is also a private message.