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Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by kuschku on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:44PM (#28922741)
> I understand your frustration but from what I have seen, nothing has actually been removed. This is just a feature that was never implemented because nobody signed up to implement it. Wayland could be extended to support it eventually but somebody actually has to put in the work. I think the best bet for somebody working on this would be to get it fully working and stable in KDE first, since Qt apparently has the toolkit support for it, and then maybe it can be adapted to work for GTK.

The issue with that is that first of all, the wayland protocol needs to be modified to add support for this, and the entire freedesktop/gnome community refuses to even consider adding support for anything like this because gnome doesn’t need it/can’t support it.

I’ve talked with vendors of devices using Linux with Wayland, who’ve been trying to get the committee to add support for years.

I’ve talked with KDE devs who’ve been frustrated without limits.

There’s a lot of people who are absolutely burnt out and angered by the constant stonewalling from Gnome, pretending for a decade that no one needs this and so it shouldn’t even exist.

Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by md8z on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:48PM (#28922800)
I really have no idea what you're talking about or what committee you're referring to. KDE can develop its own Wayland extensions and already has a lot of them. They don't need GNOME's approval. I believe they are housed in this git repository. https://invent.kde.org/libraries/plasma-wayland-protocols

Once they become stabilized and if other desktops took an interest, then they could be proposed as standard. But KDE does not need to wait for GNOME to implement a feature in Wayland, or vice versa. If you could mention which KDE developer you were talking to then maybe we could help them get this implemented in KDE first? Then afterwards if they can offer some tips to offer GTK (or other toolkits) on how to implement this, that would be valuable to everyone.

Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by kuschku on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @03:59PM (#28922952)
Honestly, you're right. I should just stop trying to discuss with the wayland wg and gnome devs and just create my own protocol extension without asking anyone, submit patches to Qt, Kwin, and certain webbrowsers, and then just use those myself.

Sure, Gnome still won't adopt them ever because they're stubborn and think they know everything better, but at least I'd have a somewhat working solution.

Maybe elementary OS would actually use it too, they've already got support for just scaling everything based on the font size.

Thing is, I need this functionality yesterday. And it's been an absolute pain hearing that even if you spend an excessive amount of work today, in a community where all of gnome is against you, maybe someday in a decade it'll get better.

Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by md8z on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:07PM (#28923049)
I think that sounds like a great idea. But I just don't understand why you were so invested in GNOME adopting them when it seems clear that they weren't really that interested, and now it seems like it actually doesn't even matter to you? I'm sure you know not to "put all your eggs in one basket" as it were.
Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by kuschku on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:10PM (#28923092)
Honestly, the big issue is that Gtk is used as basis to obtain the scaling factors for all browsers, Java, and several other tools including everything based on electron.

As long as Gtk refuses to support this, I can fix KDE, but I can't fix Java or browsers.

Java, Firefox and Chrome reject patches, saying Gnome is responsible. Gnome says they don't care.

And I don't want to run custom builds of Firefox and Java anymore. It was such a hassle constantly building them from source with my old patchset.

Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by md8z on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:17PM (#28923196)
I think if KDE actually had a working implementation of this then that would go a really long way towards convincing those other things to support it. IIRC Chrome at least doesn't get the scale from GTK. But KDE's Wayland implementation is still unstable (in part because it seems to have a lot more features than GNOME's wayland implementation) so I think it will be a while before that happens too.

If you are really committed to using Linux and don't want to wait then I said it before but I think a better use of your time would be to spend a few hundred dollars on some different monitors that can work at just 2x scale, and then let someone else deal with this.

Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by kuschku on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:26PM (#28923322)
I've got a 27" 4K HDR10 DCI-P3 1000nits monitor with builtin KVM.

Usual price point around $1600-$2200.

Comparable 2× monitors start at around $4500, and the cheapest option only supports macOS and has a $1000 monitor stand.

A "few hundred dollars" won't be enough.

At the moment, I just work all day at ~10-15fps using Budgie with fractional dpi on X11, but it's definitely not a great experience.

I used to be 100% in on KDE, but as you mentioned, Wayland support is limited.

Budgie is atm sadly the only option for multi-monitor hidpi that's not using gnome's broken top bar concept.

Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by md8z on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:19PM (#28923898)
Ah okay. I think the work required to get this implemented across the stack will still cost a lot more than $11,000, just saying. Also in my opinion 4K monitors at that size are an unfortunate purchase because the PPI is not high enough to look crisp at that viewing distance. Apple upgraded theirs because you need to get above 200 PPI range in order to have it look comparable to print. For me personally, I couldn't justify spending my spare time working on that when other monitors exist that don't have that problem.
Re:MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch by vetinari on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @04:48AM (#28928319)
4K at 27" is an unfortunate resolution / density. I know, I also have such monitor :(.

That said, 10-15 fps on X11 is a pathological case, something is wrong there. When I ran X11 and played with xrandr, the slightly larger framebuffer had zero impact (outside games) on AMD Vega64.