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Re:Nuclear Power in France by cogman10 on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @12:47PM (#28841921)
Of the things you've listed, I think the costs are really the only argument against nuclear.

The inherit risks are supremely low and the catastrophic failure mode for nuclear plants isn't a nuclear winter, in the absolutely worst case it's a contamination of the area where the plant was built (Modern nukes are all about containing failures. So even while they've optimized for not failing, they've also optimized for what happens when failure happens).

Nuclear waste isn't nearly as difficult to deal with as NIMBYs are. It's pretty easy to find enough room and locations to store nuclear waste, the harder part is convincing people that's a good place to store it. For example, a single abandoned mine could house decades worth of nuclear waste. Nuclear plants produce almost no waste and the waste they do produce is entirely self contained. Further, more modern breeder reactors produce even less waste and the waste they produce ends up having a low level or radioactivity at the end of it.

For the national defense argument, Every single power generation method has an output line to tie to the grid. Why would you attack a cooling tower (which would take a bunch of heavy duty explosives) when cutting a few MW transmission lines would have the same effect and require bolt cutters?

The only reason not to build new nuclear is because it's more expensive than the current crop of green tech and it will take longer to bring online. Existing nuclear should keep operating until the grid is decarbonized.

Re:Nuclear Power in France by Pyramus on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:12PM (#28842281)
> The inherit risks are supremely low and the catastrophic failure mode for nuclear plants isn't a nuclear winter, in the absolutely worst case it's a contamination of the area where the plant was built.

Well, not really. While the probability of an accident is indeed low (but not super low by any means, as near misses are often not publicised), the damage/cost of an accident follows a heavy-tailed distribution. As a result the average cost is extremely high.

So high in fact, that there is no market price for it. As a result no nuclear power plant worldwide is insured - the risk is directly born by the society. If we re-distribute the risk to the private sector there would simply be no nuclear power plants.

Regardless if you are pro/contra nuclear - this 'market view' is strong indication that the risk can't be easily dismissed.

Of independent interest: Some studies even conclude that this is one of the rare cases where we observe a distribution without a first moment in real life.

Re:Nuclear Power in France by cogman10 on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:23PM (#28842436)
> So high in fact, that there is no market price for it. As a result no nuclear power plant worldwide is insured

That's a very confident and incorrect statement.

https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/n...

As for accident vs costs of cleanup, like I said, new plants are designed not only to eliminate accidents from causing failures, but also such that if a failure happened, it would be completely contained.

Re:Nuclear Power in France by Pyramus on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:12PM (#28844503)
Seems like Wikipedia is incorrect as well?

"The main purpose of the [Price–Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity] Act is to partially compensate the nuclear industry against liability claims arising from nuclear incidents [...]."

"By 1966 it had become apparent that the industry would still be unable to obtain adequate private insurance, so the act was extended until 1976. [...] In 2005 it was extended again through 2025 via the Energy Policy Act of 2005."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear...

Re:Nuclear Power in France by lazide on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @12:58PM (#28842083)
Even crazier - attacking the power lines doesn’t even require bolt cutters. A ballon or toy drone and some aluminized string or thin wire is more than enough to have it blow itself up.
Re:Nuclear Power in France by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:34PM (#28842550)
Maybe for a short outage, I'd expect it to vaporize without the power line noticing. Even if noticed, automated systems will send a test voltage along the lines periodically.
Re:Nuclear Power in France by sudosysgen on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:07PM (#28842212)
The thin wire will melt appart before the power lines do.
Re:Nuclear Power in France by lazide on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:17PM (#28842351)
It doesn’t melt, it vaporizes, causing a live plasma channel to form and a giant arc between the lines that is self sustaining. If they have a arc interrupter, it might stop it before it destroys the lines, but not often, and at the power levels we’re talking about here, it is a very difficult problem.

The technique the US Military uses to destroy enemy power grids is to detonate a ball of long stringy aluminum confetti/Mylar above the enemy power substations. The destruction is apparently substantial.

Check out Mylar balloons and power lines (lots of compilations on YouTube if you don’t believe me.

Re:Nuclear Power in France by sudosysgen on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:00PM (#28842908)
Arcing powerlines generally doesn't cause irreparable damage. Sometimes a swarm of birds will trigger a swarm. The protection circuit normally trips and it's fine.

Over a substation I could see it causing a lot more damage though.

Re:Nuclear Power in France by cesarb on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:16PM (#28842337)
> The thin wire will melt apart before the power lines do.

It's a bit more subtle than that. As far as I understand, the thin wire might melt, but its vaporized remnants would be enough to keep an arc going between the phases or a phase and the ground. Then the protection devices at both ends of the line would detect the short circuit, turn off the line, wait for a bit of time (enough for the vaporized remnants and ionized air to disperse), and turn the line on again automatically. Since most high-voltage power grids have redundant circuits, it's likely that no consumer would lose power even for a moment.