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Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by mcdonje on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @09:44AM (#28773093)
Confused about how that works.

I believe the part about authoritarians trying to trojan horse bills that erode our rights disguised as unobjectionable bills. We see it all the time with bills that restrict our right to privacy disguised as anti-child porn legislation. People who come out in favor of the 4th amendment are painted as vile criminals.

That said, I don't see how it works in this instance. Care to elaborate?

Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by refurb on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @10:08AM (#28773377)
Democracies criticize authoritarian country for torture which violates human rights.

Authoritarian country criticizes democracies for environmental “crimes” which violates human rights. Says they have no right to criticize since they also violate human rights.

Massive whatsboutism that detracts from the important issues.

Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by a_diplomat on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @10:42AM (#28773741)
Yup. And also, authoritarian government uses <insert reason> to open up the framework for negotiation and weaken existing norms.
Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by mcdonje on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @11:28AM (#28774311)
Do you have an example of this? I mean, there's a pretty good case to be made that the US and the companies it supports and enables are guilty of some serious environmental crimes that majorly contribute to climate change and negatively impact people's health. Climate change is an existential issue. How do we decide that other countries are engaging in whataboutism by bringing things like that up as opposed to us engaging in whataboutism to distract from our refusal to take meaningful action on environmental issues that directly impact people across the globe?
Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @01:46PM (#28775988)
You complain to the authorities about your (poor) neighbor because he beats his children in the front yard.

He complains to the authorities that you fly on a jet a few times a year, contributing to climate change. He never flies, you see (because he can't afford it).

He promises to stop beating his children once you stop flying.

The authorities are forced to admit that this is a fair proposal, as both beating children and flying on jets are violations of human rights. No deal is struck, you continue flying on jets, he continues beating his children, knowing that what little leverage the neighborhood had over him has been lost.

Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by mcdonje on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @02:08PM (#28776254)
It'd be a better analogy to say he complains about you flooding his yard or setting trees in the park on fire. The way you worded it diminished the US' contribution, which is almost 4x the global avg per capita.

That aside, whoever speaks second appears to be the one accused of engaging in whataboutism. Just make the neighbor complain first, and then you're the one doing a whataboutism.

Both of those aside, the authorities aren't forced to conflate two separate issues and begrudgingly support the status quo. Both can and should have consequences.

Re:Clean environment could become U.N. human right by commandlinefan on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @09:49AM (#28773174)
My thought was that the "right" to a "clean environment" is, itself, a gift to authoritarians who will immediately use it to enact more taxes and restrict movement.