Determinism isn't exactly useful as a personal guideline, or anything. So I don't know why some people keep digging that hole.

I'm sure there are ways to interpret this as: this arbitrary list of things is achievable, the rest is out of your reach. But then it's your job to find out what those things are, the determinism "insight" is useless.

I am familiar with a key difference here:

Some people find nihilism to be demotivating

Some people do not

For me, it helps me remember to try to recognize my privileges, support systems and luck. I respect people that play the cards they are dealt. Any child prodigy with a lot of resources could just as easily done nothing with them, so the nihilistic approach more so helps me not resent people that won a birth lottery and also appreciate what I do before I forget and start giving generic success advice.

"Justice, What's the right thing to do" is one of my favourite books. I'm sure you know it.

1) We still don't really understand the effects of DNA on human behavior.

2) Environment is influential, but it's an influence not something that shapes you in stone forever and ever. Plus, there are all sorts of characters from all sorts of environments.

I'm sure there are some exceptions, but I'd say it mostly comes down to a personal decision to nurture willpower.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/1/15/16863374/wi....

Still, it poses tons of questions.

As the article suggests at some point, it could very well be that people who have decided to work harder have found they enjoy the work. So it could really begin with a personal decision and not some lucky random factor as a previous comment suggested.

This doesn't mean that working hard shouldn't be rewarded, it creates value.

That's a pretty bold claim.

Cultural influences, biological influences, prenatal environment, etc.

I will agree that it's probable our conscious part of the brain is less in control that we tend to believe. Still, the rest of the brain is still part of an individual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ#:~:text=Ear....

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://www.gwern...

So genetics plays a significant part in personality traits and iq. Having high conscientiousness is the trait that correlates with work ethic and drive.

It's definitely not 100% but genes play a big part. Twin studies are cool - even though there's usually something tragic involved with twins separated at birth, it gives you an excellent way of assessing genetic influences on a huge array of factors.

Doesn't work if you think humans are special and above biological definitions though :)

Those factors are not yours to control. Even if you are able to influence some of them, the ability to do so is dependent on factors you do not control.

That all said that still leaves us with our individuality, desire to act and responsibility. And it leaves us with as much control over our ability to act as any other control - you can accept that our actions are rather mechanical results of prior experiences but not reject the fact that they're still our actions.

> And it leaves us with as much control over our ability to act as any other control

No, there is no fundamental ability to control. We have some illusion of control. Don't mistake this for saying that humans can't change, we just have no control over how we change.

Judges that decide over parole won't attribute their decision on the last time they ate, even if it is the single most important factor to their decision.

It will be interesting to observe how society will react to this in the next 50 years when the science will become harder and harder to deny.

This finding doesn't replicate[0]. In the original study, there was a more mundane explanation: "Defendants without representation have their hearings scheduled at the end of sessions, before breaks."

You have much more confidence in the current research than I think is warranted. Genes are indeed a small portion of our DNA, but your statement that "the interesting stuff happens in the other 95%" is unbounded and poorly defined.

Personally, I think we have some control over things, and probably less control than most people perceive themselves as happening. But this research is in its infancy and having trouble with basic replication, so holding a strong opinion is a recipe for making poor decisions off it.

[0] https://www.annieduke.com/no-judges-dont-give-harsher-senten...

My understanding is that a portion of the remaining 95% are responsible for turning genes and whole chains of them on and off or something in between.

There is no place in the physical world where this control could come from.

The factors that influence are hugely complex and very hard to separate. Just because we do not understand how certain factors interact and influence our behavior doesn't mean we have control.

Put a little differently, regardless of what the absolute truth resolves to - it's in my best interest to take the illusion of control.

Poverty and Crime are not moral failings.

Presumably we would make the lives of such people far better if we attribute their missfortune to just bad luck.

Redistributing wealth from people that got lucky is also simpler than if we'd attribute their success to their goodness.

My comment was mostly about my own orientation towards the world. Maybe I do have control, maybe I don't - but I feel better (and hopefully have better outcomes) with the illusion of control/actual control, instead of letting go. OTOH, I also get a lot of stress relief from letting go and not trying to control things during meditation.

Living is hard.

Again - in a way this is something I entirely agree with but not in the important way. We are all automata in a society and society can attempt to fix broken components. Even if all your actions are just a result of past experiences - you yourself are no more meaningful and it's thus appropriate to assign you responsibility for your actions. If your experiences had shaped you differently then you'd probably make different ones - but you are who you are because of how you were shaped - and the you who is shaped in that manner is responsible for the actions you've taken. Hypothetical other yous that had slightly different experiences don't exist and are therefore irrelevant - but you're responsible for what you do.

I don't follow this.

We don't blame people for actions when we think that they don't have control over these actions.

If someone has their first epileptic episode while driving a car and they kill someone because of it, we understand that they had no control and don't hold them responsible for the accident. Why should it be different if the causes are more complex and harder to trace back?

Because if you go that far you deny the whole concept of individuality and humanity even, up on which all of our moral and legal system were built. What are we but cogs in a machine?

It's not that there isn't any logic in it, it's just not an useful thing to contemplate about while you obviously still cling on to your sense of self so far as to having an argument with others.

And, on the otherside, we are a funny animal that takes comfort in the fact that we control our own destinies so, even if we don't - we'd like to empower ourselves as if we were in some manner. At a basic level our misunderstanding might be the fact that the ability to choose equates responsibility - without any responsibility (good and bad) your choices have no power - choosing to not do the shitty thing lets you avoid a penalty and so you can be happy with yourself. This equation of choice and responsibility is why punishment is so necessary (both big-j Justice like cops jail and the like - and little-j justice like being shunned, not getting a raise and failing to find an equal partnership in a relationship) so responsibility exists to add meaning to our lives. In fact denying it to people permanently (i.e. the developmentally disabled) does come with a strong cost to their sense of self - a lot of folks who live in support systems can struggle to define themselves, but, at the same time, neurodiversity means that different folks can find contentness in different ways.

It's all terribly complicated I think.

Except maybe in how we think about justice perhaps. But that's not useful now.

This is a big one.

Income and wealth inequality is another one.

The only reason why someone should have more than someone else is to incentivize to increase the total cake. But you probably can redistribute far more without reducing the total cake too much.