I should have suggested that "some" people will not change, and they will be very vocal. Many politicians will want their vote, and its not clear to me who will have the majority in our democracies.
There was huge support for lockdown and restrictions here for a long time, and only just in the last few weeks is compliance becoming an issue in Melbourne (but not so much elsewhere). Turns out a year of social restrictions causes fatigue.
Luckily, a lot of the electrification parts of the climate bill will save Americans (and Australians) money without changing lifestyles — same size homes, cars, etc — just electrified. Electric machinery is just that much more efficient.
Rewiring America and Rewiring Australia have the actual numbers: https://www.rewiringamerica.org/ and https://www.rewiringaustralia.org/
I'm not sure drilling for a heat pump would work in town here, and then the operating cost would still likely be more than gas (heating is at least 75% of my annual consumption).
Figuring out how to eliminate those emissions is important, but it sure as hell isn't going to save me money, especially now and in the short term.
> It's going to be hard to convince folks to replace their gas water heaters with electric heat pump models that cost ~3x more and save little to no cost annually.
Heat pumps are not "3x" as expensive and the price is coming down. Heat pumps are also a lot more efficient than any other heat source! Most households in the US would save ~$500/year on the energy bill if they switched to air-source heat pumps. Source: https://www.rewiringamerica.org/policy/bringing-infrastructu... This doesn't account for business use.
So it works like solar panels and electric cars — higher up front cost that saves you money over the long term. And if the government gave up-front rebates to make the costs the same or lower than furnaces then it's a no-brainer to use heat pumps.
>I'm not sure drilling for a heat pump would work in town here, and then the operating cost would still likely be more than gas (heating is at least 75% of my annual consumption).
Air source heat pumps are where it's at — waaay easier install than using ground-source or water-source. Air-source heat pumps used to not work in colder climates but now they do and have gotten a lot more efficient. These things are really awesome, a pretty good way to slash emissions while saving money over the long term.
My expectation is that an air source heat pump would not work well here, at considerably higher cost than the gas furnace when installing is included in the comparison. Air source probably not working well is why I talked about drilling (each paragraph is a topic; water heating in the first and home heating in the second...).
Heat pump water heaters do save about half the cost in electricity over a conventional resistive-only water heater, and are optimal for places with basements, as they also dehumidify; or in warm climates, as they cool the air. So it's also useful for long term perishable storage like a root cellar would be, or in a laundry room. They do cost 3x as much, though.
Residential heat pumps for heating and cooling in the US is relatively new, and I've had nothing but problems with mine - so much so that I just received a full refund on the purchase price of my unit because of manufacturing "defects".
It's unfortunate that the heat pump ecosystem isn't as developed as it should be. Feels kind of like installing Linux vs buying a Mac — not so seamless.
"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too." - Kennedy
I believe that fighting climate change is a problem of similiar magnitude to going to the moon in 1969, and smaller than winning WWII. We did both of those things, we can do this. But we have to want to.
A majority of Americans support action on climate change.
US wished to flex its muscles since it was losing the space race to the Soviet Union. If the pure-Communists can beat you in an advanced tech area, then there is something wrong with pure capitalism.
When the Chinese start leading the pack in green initiatives and propagandising their efforts, the US will hard-press the accelerator.
Competition is the essence and core of the human spirit.
If we bank on the will of the American people we are surely doomed.
I'm at a loss for words here. The most lauded Australian prime minister of the last 30 years is the one that banned firearms, dragged Australia into the Middle East, started offshore detention and introduced a value-added tax on everything from drinks to tampons. People have literally been elected on promises of destroying internet infrastructure.
The problem Australia has is exclusively to do with every single political group (including the Greens) being anti-environmental and peddling conspiracy theories about things like nuclear and hydroelectric. It has nothing to do with what Australians will or won't accept -- Australia has arguably the world's most docile, suggestible population. It has everything to do with political incompetence and an extreme, unhinged focus on being electable.
> I think Covid19 demonstrates how resistant people are to change, and that they are not willing to make sacrifices for the greater good.
Australians have endured some of the longest, strictest lockdowns, and are on track to have one of the world's highest vaccination rates.
I'm really not sure why you seem to be pinning this on the population.
My perspective of democracy was that it was to protect us against both unjust rulers and ineffective rulers. The end result was instead of potential kings/rulers fighting each other directly as they did in ancient times, they fight each other indirectly by trying to get votes. They are not much different then previous era's....
Is it really this hard to get a wise ruler who both cares about the well being of humans and can take the long term view? Someone who can tell fact from fiction.
Most of them "can", but the ones who "will" get weeded out early or are made out to be lepers (Ralph Nader comes to mind).
I think both major parties are dragging their feet on climate because any sacrifices they ask people to make will lose them the election. Covid is different because it has not been an election issue.
I'm pinning it on us, because who else is there.
I'm happy to make sacrifices, but a lot of vocal people are not.
We need to stop talking about "making sacrifices". We need to get people excited about the amazing opportunities all this work provides us.
It's exciting to me that we need to replant our forests. We have new power plants to build. New desalination plants! New farming technologies!
So much work in so many industries, it can be an exciting time of growth if you ask me!
Oh, but 'people' feel its change. You feel it.
But it is all secondary, or even further away. Coffee is more expensive. Gas (CNG) prices is already costing many households more in these summer months. Gasoline prices are at record hights. Water is increasing in price. Electricity prices are at record heights (which, is increasing my IT infrastructure bills). In many regions we cannot get certain potatoes doe to crops failing. And so on.
You see the effects, when you look for em. In your wallet. On your table. In your bottom lines and revenues.
So, aside from the opportunities we may see, there are effects having impact on average peoples live this very moment
And here we are, pampered boomers and millenials, in a society so selfish and profit and status oriented that we are not willing to accept the slightest inconveniences, or god forbid tax increase, to tackle one of the biggest challenges we ever faced.
The US was pushed into the war by Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt was in favor of joining the war effort directly but faced isolationist opposition at home. The best he could do was the lend-lease agreement with the UK, which was a hard bargain in the US’s favor.
After the war was joined it was sustained by a massive domestic propaganda campaign (all those iconic WW2 posters? Propaganda)
WW2 and the cold-war era space program represent the zenith of technocratic government in the west. What we have seen since is in many ways 50+ years of failure: social unrest, Vietnam war, inflation, terrorism, more war, financial crisis, pandemic. The government has seemed to be unprepared for all of those. While it’s not what I believe personally, I can understand if someone thinks that government will fail to meet the complex challenge of climate change.
The legislative branch of the US government is so thoroughly disordered that it can effectively pass one single piece of legislation per year through the budget reconciliation process. We trust this group of people and this process to solve climate change, when it will not even take up the more targeted and effective proposals such as a carbon tax?
Hopefully, we could have a very big energy crisis. Unlike COVID, energy price rise affects everyone directly, it's not like "I know somebody who..." (unfortunately, the poorer are hit harder). This would affect everyone and would lead to some social unrest. Not that I wish social unrest, but that is a signal that can't be ignored, even though it is a very slippy slope.
Interestingly, the current spike in gas prices down here puts a lot of politicians in panic mode. Gas price, unlike covid, is the result of human negotiator; you can't invoke "bad luck" or "nature's revenge" or whatever....
Nope. Even if 50% of US taxes are "wasted" on things manigandham doesn't care about, it doesn't follow that increasing taxes would simply all be diverted to things manigandham doesn't care about and thus "wasted".
And waste is defined as money spent that doesn't reach any goals, or even make any progress towards them. It's a very common topic on HN about startups spending capital poorly, and likewise profligate spending can be found everywhere in (US) government. $2T in a decades-long war is a recent example, including the hundreds of billions in equipment and resources left behind.
But surely, you knew what I meant. I wonder how much climate change progress could've been made with all that money. Feel free to donate more with your next tax payment if you want.
1. Government spend on stupid shit like welfare and all the stuff in Paul's Festivus report,
2. Government spend inefficiently paying lot of buraucrats between when dollars are taken in and when they leave goernment.
Really? I think Covid-19 showed just how readily people are willing to subject themselves to humiliation and medical experimentation because of a disease whose headline kill rate is low, and whose practical kill rate is abysmal (ie, for the non-nursing home set). Shrug. When the establishment actually decides on the pastoralization of the Western world, they will get it the next day.
https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c...
It's not just to blame the people for not sacrificing when there are - and rightfully so - trust issues. There's simply not enough historical evidence to support trusting Uncle Sam and his ilk. I'm not advocating that, simply showing empathy for those who - again rightfully so - remain suspect of a political and media system that has its best interests in mind first, and WTP a distant second.
Keep shopping.
I think Covid19 demonstrates how resistant people are to change, and that they are not willing to make sacrifices for the greater good.
Nearly 700,000 Americans have died as a direct result of Covid, can you imagine how many people will have to die before people give up air travel or eating beef.
Covid has made me realize that no solution that asks people to wind back energy use will work, we need to push forward and develop carbon sequestration and other terrafoming technologies.